1
00:01:02,389 --> 00:00:21,310
[Music]

2
00:01:06,390 --> 00:01:04,229
hello and welcome to the show i'm martin

3
00:01:08,710 --> 00:01:06,400
willis your host and we have a great

4
00:01:10,469 --> 00:01:08,720
show for you this evening the first hour

5
00:01:11,750 --> 00:01:10,479
is actually a pre-record but you're not

6
00:01:12,789 --> 00:01:11,760
going to be able to tell because it's

7
00:01:17,190 --> 00:01:12,799
going to

8
00:01:19,990 --> 00:01:17,200
part with charles lear the first guest

9
00:01:21,830 --> 00:01:20,000
tonight is philip mantle from the uk and

10
00:01:24,149 --> 00:01:21,840
the reason we're pre-recording is

11
00:01:26,710 --> 00:01:24,159
because of the time zones of course over

12
00:01:29,109 --> 00:01:26,720
in england would be too late over there

13
00:01:30,950 --> 00:01:29,119
at the normal lifetime so like i said

14
00:01:32,710 --> 00:01:30,960
the first hour was with philip mantle

15
00:01:35,749 --> 00:01:32,720
he's going to be talking about his new

16
00:01:37,270 --> 00:01:35,759
book uh where he looks at ufo landing

17
00:01:41,030 --> 00:01:37,280
cases in the uk

18
00:01:43,590 --> 00:01:41,040
and also uh one i believe in ireland and

19
00:01:47,350 --> 00:01:43,600
this is uh long before the modern era of

20
00:01:49,190 --> 00:01:47,360
ufo sightings began back in 1947. guess

21
00:01:51,429 --> 00:01:49,200
two in the second hour charles lear a

22
00:01:54,870 --> 00:01:51,439
long time blogger for our website

23
00:01:57,749 --> 00:01:54,880
podcast ufo and he has a new book the

24
00:01:59,590 --> 00:01:57,759
flying saucer investigators and which

25
00:02:02,550 --> 00:01:59,600
that is about uh people that are

26
00:02:04,310 --> 00:02:02,560
involved in the mystery of

27
00:02:06,389 --> 00:02:04,320
flying saucers as well as the

28
00:02:09,109 --> 00:02:06,399
investigators and witnesses

29
00:02:12,390 --> 00:02:09,119
and the gold this is starting at the

30
00:02:13,350 --> 00:02:12,400
golden age of flying saucers which began

31
00:02:17,510 --> 00:02:13,360
back in

32
00:02:20,949 --> 00:02:17,520
uh 1947 what they call the modern uh

33
00:02:22,630 --> 00:02:20,959
ufos as they say uh not the ancient

34
00:02:24,869 --> 00:02:22,640
aliens or whatever

35
00:02:26,790 --> 00:02:24,879
uh but anyway the blog that charles

36
00:02:29,110 --> 00:02:26,800
wrote for us this week is called when

37
00:02:31,430 --> 00:02:29,120
ufos were flying discs and a lot of that

38
00:02:33,910 --> 00:02:31,440
is about um hoaxes that people have done

39
00:02:38,070 --> 00:02:33,920
over the year which is unfortunately a

40
00:02:40,470 --> 00:02:38,080
sad part of ufology all the the hoax is

41
00:02:43,030 --> 00:02:40,480
now it gets easier and easier every day

42
00:02:44,470 --> 00:02:43,040
with uh cgi

43
00:02:47,910 --> 00:02:44,480
there's some great ones out there that

44
00:02:48,869 --> 00:02:47,920
look so real but they're not and uh it's

45
00:02:53,270 --> 00:02:48,879
too bad

46
00:02:55,190 --> 00:02:53,280
some right this is cgi uh enjoy it and

47
00:02:56,949 --> 00:02:55,200
but a lot of them not a lot of them but

48
00:03:00,470 --> 00:02:56,959
uh some of them are out there

49
00:03:02,309 --> 00:03:00,480
are cgi fakes and hoaxes so just be

50
00:03:04,710 --> 00:03:02,319
careful when you're looking at you know

51
00:03:06,790 --> 00:03:04,720
places like youtube and things like that

52
00:03:09,270 --> 00:03:06,800
if you're looking for the real deal

53
00:03:12,229 --> 00:03:09,280
tomorrow night wednesday night uh the

54
00:03:15,030 --> 00:03:12,239
15th june 15th at 8pm

55
00:03:17,270 --> 00:03:15,040
uh live on the everything else show is

56
00:03:20,390 --> 00:03:17,280
becky ferreira and she's a science

57
00:03:23,190 --> 00:03:20,400
writer and she is going to be on

58
00:03:25,350 --> 00:03:23,200
talking about the possibility of life on

59
00:03:27,670 --> 00:03:25,360
jupiter's moon europa

60
00:03:28,470 --> 00:03:27,680
and with that we are going to get the

61
00:03:30,550 --> 00:03:28,480
show

62
00:03:32,630 --> 00:03:30,560
this is for tomorrow night and the link

63
00:03:34,869 --> 00:03:32,640
will be down into

64
00:03:37,430 --> 00:03:34,879
the uh text of this

65
00:03:39,589 --> 00:03:37,440
show below and also on my youtube

66
00:03:42,070 --> 00:03:39,599
channel and here we go with our great

67
00:03:42,869 --> 00:03:42,080
guests from the uk philip welcome to the

68
00:03:44,630 --> 00:03:42,879
show

69
00:03:47,110 --> 00:03:44,640
yeah good evening marty nice to speak to

70
00:03:47,990 --> 00:03:47,120
you again always nice to speak to you as

71
00:03:50,789 --> 00:03:48,000
well

72
00:03:53,190 --> 00:03:50,799
so uh thank you for joining us and uh

73
00:03:55,190 --> 00:03:53,200
let's talk about your book how many

74
00:03:57,589 --> 00:03:55,200
books have you written all together i

75
00:04:01,750 --> 00:03:57,599
don't know you know

76
00:04:02,710 --> 00:04:01,760
some some might say enough

77
00:04:07,990 --> 00:04:02,720
you know

78
00:04:10,309 --> 00:04:08,000
six or seven books but then i i did some

79
00:04:12,229 --> 00:04:10,319
little booklets for uh a younger

80
00:04:13,589 --> 00:04:12,239
audience many years back so i don't know

81
00:04:16,310 --> 00:04:13,599
if they're

82
00:04:18,229 --> 00:04:16,320
if he clashed them as well um

83
00:04:20,550 --> 00:04:18,239
and i've i've written some books and

84
00:04:22,310 --> 00:04:20,560
then a few years later later i've done a

85
00:04:24,629 --> 00:04:22,320
revised edition of the same way you know

86
00:04:27,350 --> 00:04:24,639
brought it up to date

87
00:04:29,270 --> 00:04:27,360
yeah so you know i'm still going i think

88
00:04:32,310 --> 00:04:29,280
i might still have one or two

89
00:04:34,790 --> 00:04:32,320
more left in me so we shall see

90
00:04:37,189 --> 00:04:34,800
yeah now uh the children's book i think

91
00:04:39,270 --> 00:04:37,199
that's great that you have written that

92
00:04:40,230 --> 00:04:39,280
there's a few out there there's uh i met

93
00:04:42,629 --> 00:04:40,240
someone

94
00:04:44,310 --> 00:04:42,639
recently that is sort of writing in that

95
00:04:46,710 --> 00:04:44,320
way um

96
00:04:48,390 --> 00:04:46,720
katie cook she's uh known country

97
00:04:50,629 --> 00:04:48,400
western but she's also interested in the

98
00:04:51,990 --> 00:04:50,639
topic and she's writing children's books

99
00:04:54,629 --> 00:04:52,000
and i think it's a

100
00:04:57,430 --> 00:04:54,639
i i believe it's a very good

101
00:05:00,469 --> 00:04:57,440
thing to start out young about the

102
00:05:02,070 --> 00:05:00,479
possibility of you know not not saying

103
00:05:04,950 --> 00:05:02,080
again i i know you wouldn't be the type

104
00:05:07,189 --> 00:05:04,960
to say i know these are aliens from

105
00:05:09,830 --> 00:05:07,199
zeta reticuli or something like that i

106
00:05:12,710 --> 00:05:09,840
uh i know you you always you have a good

107
00:05:15,749 --> 00:05:12,720
level head so i'm sure your books are

108
00:05:17,990 --> 00:05:15,759
really good might as well um let them

109
00:05:20,310 --> 00:05:18,000
take a look at a young age and

110
00:05:22,469 --> 00:05:20,320
and get the curiosity going yeah i've

111
00:05:24,150 --> 00:05:22,479
always find young people probably you

112
00:05:25,430 --> 00:05:24,160
know a better audience certainly when

113
00:05:27,029 --> 00:05:25,440
speaking in front of them they seem to

114
00:05:29,110 --> 00:05:27,039
ask more intelligent questions of the

115
00:05:30,550 --> 00:05:29,120
adults sometimes

116
00:05:32,390 --> 00:05:30,560
yeah that was a long time back and it

117
00:05:33,749 --> 00:05:32,400
was a publisher who were doing a series

118
00:05:36,629 --> 00:05:33,759
of books and they

119
00:05:38,629 --> 00:05:36,639
they asked me to sort of proofread

120
00:05:39,749 --> 00:05:38,639
something and i thought you know

121
00:05:41,510 --> 00:05:39,759
with every

122
00:05:43,350 --> 00:05:41,520
greatest respect to your authors they've

123
00:05:45,110 --> 00:05:43,360
got a lot of things wrong so this

124
00:05:46,950 --> 00:05:45,120
invited me down to london and i told

125
00:05:48,950 --> 00:05:46,960
them what was wrong with it and they

126
00:05:50,710 --> 00:05:48,960
said well will you write it i said yeah

127
00:05:53,029 --> 00:05:50,720
fine so you know

128
00:05:55,909 --> 00:05:53,039
we were up and running that's great

129
00:05:58,870 --> 00:05:55,919
that's great so um i understand that you

130
00:06:01,590 --> 00:05:58,880
started back in 1980 which wow you're

131
00:06:04,070 --> 00:06:01,600
going back 42 years now so

132
00:06:06,629 --> 00:06:04,080
what uh spark but you had an interest

133
00:06:08,790 --> 00:06:06,639
before did you before that yeah yeah

134
00:06:11,029 --> 00:06:08,800
absolutely i mean as far back as i can

135
00:06:12,150 --> 00:06:11,039
remember martin i always had an interest

136
00:06:19,670 --> 00:06:12,160
in

137
00:06:21,909 --> 00:06:19,680
um

138
00:06:23,909 --> 00:06:21,919
a city called leeds in the north of

139
00:06:26,390 --> 00:06:23,919
england in west yorkshire

140
00:06:28,309 --> 00:06:26,400
and i i was fortunate

141
00:06:30,469 --> 00:06:28,319
the lady that lived opposite us was my

142
00:06:32,629 --> 00:06:30,479
best friend's grandmother

143
00:06:34,469 --> 00:06:32,639
and she used to go to the uh the local

144
00:06:36,390 --> 00:06:34,479
spiritualist church

145
00:06:37,670 --> 00:06:36,400
and now and again i would you know i tag

146
00:06:39,270 --> 00:06:37,680
along with her and i found it

147
00:06:41,350 --> 00:06:39,280
fascinating

148
00:06:43,990 --> 00:06:41,360
i didn't necessarily agree with

149
00:06:46,309 --> 00:06:44,000
everything they said of course but

150
00:06:47,670 --> 00:06:46,319
uh nonetheless it was great and it

151
00:06:49,830 --> 00:06:47,680
wasn't about when you were at high

152
00:06:52,070 --> 00:06:49,840
school marching but i know for us after

153
00:06:54,070 --> 00:06:52,080
the the summer recess

154
00:06:55,749 --> 00:06:54,080
when we went back to school

155
00:06:56,629 --> 00:06:55,759
the teacher would often say all right

156
00:06:58,309 --> 00:06:56,639
you know

157
00:07:00,309 --> 00:06:58,319
stand up one at a time and tell us what

158
00:07:02,870 --> 00:07:00,319
you did during the summer holidays some

159
00:07:04,710 --> 00:07:02,880
people went you know overseas

160
00:07:08,230 --> 00:07:04,720
others were riding their horse what did

161
00:07:10,309 --> 00:07:08,240
you do phillip or at all you know

162
00:07:12,230 --> 00:07:10,319
i went to the spiritualist

163
00:07:14,790 --> 00:07:12,240
church sir

164
00:07:16,870 --> 00:07:14,800
and uh it wasn't a great one for getting

165
00:07:17,909 --> 00:07:16,880
a girlfriend at school i can't assure

166
00:07:20,469 --> 00:07:17,919
you you know

167
00:07:23,749 --> 00:07:20,479
yeah but that's how it all started i and

168
00:07:25,270 --> 00:07:23,759
um i was also you know fascinated by the

169
00:07:28,070 --> 00:07:25,280
space programme

170
00:07:30,950 --> 00:07:28,080
and astronomy in general and still do

171
00:07:33,670 --> 00:07:30,960
keep a a passing interest in it

172
00:07:35,909 --> 00:07:33,680
and um i've read one book on astronomy i

173
00:07:39,589 --> 00:07:35,919
have no idea what it was called and he

174
00:07:43,189 --> 00:07:39,599
had one chapter in it mentioned in ufos

175
00:07:45,270 --> 00:07:43,199
and it pretty much dismissed the subject

176
00:07:47,350 --> 00:07:45,280
marching which i found peculiar because

177
00:07:49,749 --> 00:07:47,360
elsewhere in this book

178
00:07:52,550 --> 00:07:49,759
were some very hypothetical

179
00:07:54,150 --> 00:07:52,560
you know astronomical um things i

180
00:07:56,790 --> 00:07:54,160
thought well you you'll accept them as

181
00:07:59,670 --> 00:07:56,800
possibilities but not ufos well that's

182
00:08:01,029 --> 00:07:59,680
strange but it sparked the interest

183
00:08:03,270 --> 00:08:01,039
so i left

184
00:08:05,029 --> 00:08:03,280
high school in 1974

185
00:08:06,710 --> 00:08:05,039
at the age of 16.

186
00:08:07,990 --> 00:08:06,720
no idea what i was going to do but i

187
00:08:10,629 --> 00:08:08,000
still had this

188
00:08:13,270 --> 00:08:10,639
this this burning interest so

189
00:08:15,749 --> 00:08:13,280
eventually i ended up in in

190
00:08:18,950 --> 00:08:15,759
late 1978

191
00:08:20,629 --> 00:08:18,960
over into the over the winter into 1979

192
00:08:22,629 --> 00:08:20,639
i ended up working in west germany with

193
00:08:24,390 --> 00:08:22,639
a friend of mine

194
00:08:28,150 --> 00:08:24,400
couldn't speak a word of the language i

195
00:08:29,749 --> 00:08:28,160
mean not one word and um so i tell you

196
00:08:31,430 --> 00:08:29,759
from my mom and said mom can you send me

197
00:08:33,350 --> 00:08:31,440
some books to read

198
00:08:35,829 --> 00:08:33,360
and she sent me a box of books and they

199
00:08:38,149 --> 00:08:35,839
were all about ufos martin and the whole

200
00:08:39,909 --> 00:08:38,159
box full so i would sit there on a night

201
00:08:43,190 --> 00:08:39,919
you know reading away so what when i

202
00:08:46,790 --> 00:08:43,200
came back in 1979 i had a bit more of a

203
00:08:49,509 --> 00:08:46,800
a grasp on the subject still very naive

204
00:08:51,910 --> 00:08:49,519
in that respect and like i said i lived

205
00:08:54,310 --> 00:08:51,920
just outside of the city of leeds

206
00:08:56,870 --> 00:08:54,320
and leads then and still does now

207
00:09:00,230 --> 00:08:56,880
publishes a newspaper on an evening and

208
00:09:01,990 --> 00:09:00,240
it's called the yorkshire evening post

209
00:09:03,750 --> 00:09:02,000
my auntie who lived just around the

210
00:09:05,750 --> 00:09:03,760
corner from us she brought the newspaper

211
00:09:07,190 --> 00:09:05,760
around one evening and said philip

212
00:09:09,829 --> 00:09:07,200
have you seen this

213
00:09:12,310 --> 00:09:09,839
and there was a small advertisement

214
00:09:14,949 --> 00:09:12,320
for the formation of the yorkshire ufo

215
00:09:17,110 --> 00:09:14,959
society it was coming up that sunday and

216
00:09:19,190 --> 00:09:17,120
there was a meeting in leeds

217
00:09:20,949 --> 00:09:19,200
so i caught the bus i didn't drive in

218
00:09:23,910 --> 00:09:20,959
those days and on a sunday everything

219
00:09:26,710 --> 00:09:23,920
used to close here in the uk martin

220
00:09:28,790 --> 00:09:26,720
i found this this building where i found

221
00:09:30,230 --> 00:09:28,800
this gathering there were about 20 30

222
00:09:32,949 --> 00:09:30,240
people there

223
00:09:34,790 --> 00:09:32,959
and and the yorkshire ufo society was

224
00:09:37,750 --> 00:09:34,800
set up by two brothers

225
00:09:40,070 --> 00:09:37,760
uh mark and graham bertsel

226
00:09:41,750 --> 00:09:40,080
and they put on a presentation

227
00:09:44,070 --> 00:09:41,760
um because they'd obviously been

228
00:09:46,230 --> 00:09:44,080
involved for a few years already and

229
00:09:48,310 --> 00:09:46,240
that was it martin i was hooked

230
00:09:50,470 --> 00:09:48,320
you know i thought i felt like this was

231
00:09:52,150 --> 00:09:50,480
the right place at the right time

232
00:09:53,350 --> 00:09:52,160
i felt i could come home in some

233
00:09:55,430 --> 00:09:53,360
respects

234
00:09:57,350 --> 00:09:55,440
uh still very naive of course i thought

235
00:09:59,190 --> 00:09:57,360
i'll read a few more books

236
00:10:00,949 --> 00:09:59,200
maybe write a few letters to people and

237
00:10:01,750 --> 00:10:00,959
i'll know everything i want to know you

238
00:10:05,750 --> 00:10:01,760
know

239
00:10:08,470 --> 00:10:05,760
plus years ago and i'm still asking the

240
00:10:11,110 --> 00:10:08,480
same damn questions now

241
00:10:13,750 --> 00:10:11,120
you know and that's how it all began

242
00:10:14,949 --> 00:10:13,760
literally so i joined the yorkshire ufo

243
00:10:17,030 --> 00:10:14,959
society

244
00:10:19,750 --> 00:10:17,040
i think my membership fee for the whole

245
00:10:21,750 --> 00:10:19,760
year was about two pounds it's about

246
00:10:23,430 --> 00:10:21,760
you know three dollars

247
00:10:24,230 --> 00:10:23,440
and and we were up and running and that

248
00:10:27,990 --> 00:10:24,240
that

249
00:10:30,069 --> 00:10:28,000
well um

250
00:10:33,190 --> 00:10:30,079
in all those years have you ever

251
00:10:35,990 --> 00:10:33,200
personally had a ufo sighting i've

252
00:10:38,790 --> 00:10:36,000
seen two things um

253
00:10:40,470 --> 00:10:38,800
where we live our county is split up

254
00:10:43,190 --> 00:10:40,480
into four

255
00:10:45,590 --> 00:10:43,200
it's north south east and west yorkshire

256
00:10:47,750 --> 00:10:45,600
in north yorkshire we have the yorkshire

257
00:10:49,670 --> 00:10:47,760
dales national park

258
00:10:51,350 --> 00:10:49,680
a beautiful part of the world

259
00:10:52,790 --> 00:10:51,360
and there was an area there in the early

260
00:10:55,509 --> 00:10:52,800
1980s

261
00:10:58,069 --> 00:10:55,519
uh outside of the town of skipton

262
00:11:00,550 --> 00:10:58,079
above a little village called carlton

263
00:11:03,430 --> 00:11:00,560
simply called more you know you drive

264
00:11:05,509 --> 00:11:03,440
through the village go up the other side

265
00:11:08,550 --> 00:11:05,519
and it's moorland heather

266
00:11:11,030 --> 00:11:08,560
uh the there's there's very few uh

267
00:11:13,910 --> 00:11:11,040
houses it's mainly

268
00:11:15,269 --> 00:11:13,920
for game birds you know grouse pheasant

269
00:11:18,870 --> 00:11:15,279
that kind of thing

270
00:11:20,870 --> 00:11:18,880
so there isn't any sheep or cows

271
00:11:23,190 --> 00:11:20,880
and for whatever reason martin in and

272
00:11:25,590 --> 00:11:23,200
around these hills and dales

273
00:11:27,030 --> 00:11:25,600
we had a lot of ufo sightings and a lot

274
00:11:28,790 --> 00:11:27,040
of them reached us

275
00:11:31,910 --> 00:11:28,800
so we would go there on occasion

276
00:11:35,269 --> 00:11:31,920
sometimes we'd organize a sky watch

277
00:11:36,790 --> 00:11:35,279
other times uh graeme bertsell sadly no

278
00:11:38,710 --> 00:11:36,800
longer with us grain would phone me and

279
00:11:40,949 --> 00:11:38,720
said do you want to go to count more for

280
00:11:44,470 --> 00:11:40,959
an hour and it was about 90 minutes

281
00:11:46,790 --> 00:11:44,480
drive i i didn't drive at that point

282
00:11:48,630 --> 00:11:46,800
so graeme and i were on cal tomorrow

283
00:11:50,470 --> 00:11:48,640
night and there's a place where you can

284
00:11:52,069 --> 00:11:50,480
park the car and you can see the whole

285
00:11:54,230 --> 00:11:52,079
moor in front of you

286
00:11:56,389 --> 00:11:54,240
there's not a building in sight martin

287
00:11:58,629 --> 00:11:56,399
no lights no nothing

288
00:12:01,269 --> 00:11:58,639
and we were chatting away you know about

289
00:12:03,990 --> 00:12:01,279
a half as 12 1 o'clock in the morning

290
00:12:06,069 --> 00:12:04,000
talking about the football or whatever

291
00:12:09,190 --> 00:12:06,079
and then being

292
00:12:10,870 --> 00:12:09,200
out across the mall this light appeared

293
00:12:11,910 --> 00:12:10,880
graham looked at me and i looked at him

294
00:12:13,590 --> 00:12:11,920
and i thought

295
00:12:16,069 --> 00:12:13,600
there's nothing there

296
00:12:17,350 --> 00:12:16,079
that we know of it so we jumped in the

297
00:12:19,190 --> 00:12:17,360
car

298
00:12:19,910 --> 00:12:19,200
now those that know graham or did know

299
00:12:21,590 --> 00:12:19,920
him

300
00:12:24,389 --> 00:12:21,600
he used to drive like a maniac at the

301
00:12:27,430 --> 00:12:24,399
best of times martin you know so we're

302
00:12:29,670 --> 00:12:27,440
literally tearing across the moorland

303
00:12:31,750 --> 00:12:29,680
pitch black graham's driving i'm looking

304
00:12:33,829 --> 00:12:31,760
out of the window

305
00:12:36,150 --> 00:12:33,839
and at one point all these fields are

306
00:12:37,350 --> 00:12:36,160
all surrounded by what we call dry stone

307
00:12:41,350 --> 00:12:37,360
walls

308
00:12:43,670 --> 00:12:41,360
stone but there's no there's no concrete

309
00:12:46,150 --> 00:12:43,680
or mortar holding them together

310
00:12:48,389 --> 00:12:46,160
and um i don't know whether the wall was

311
00:12:49,910 --> 00:12:48,399
down or it was a gate that was open but

312
00:12:51,350 --> 00:12:49,920
i could see right down this little

313
00:12:53,990 --> 00:12:51,360
valley

314
00:12:55,190 --> 00:12:54,000
and and hanging in the sky

315
00:12:57,350 --> 00:12:55,200
um

316
00:12:58,949 --> 00:12:57,360
not not miles away i mean right there

317
00:13:00,230 --> 00:12:58,959
and in your face

318
00:13:02,550 --> 00:13:00,240
was

319
00:13:04,790 --> 00:13:02,560
like a cartwheel of lights

320
00:13:07,030 --> 00:13:04,800
it's almost as if you got the london eye

321
00:13:08,870 --> 00:13:07,040
cartwheel and stuck it in the sky and it

322
00:13:10,870 --> 00:13:08,880
was there

323
00:13:12,870 --> 00:13:10,880
and it was massive

324
00:13:15,190 --> 00:13:12,880
and i screamed at graham

325
00:13:17,670 --> 00:13:15,200
so he finally brought the car to a halt

326
00:13:19,670 --> 00:13:17,680
and we we jumped over this wall but

327
00:13:21,430 --> 00:13:19,680
it had gone graham was just mad as hell

328
00:13:23,750 --> 00:13:21,440
because he hadn't seen it because he was

329
00:13:25,430 --> 00:13:23,760
selling keepers on the road

330
00:13:27,509 --> 00:13:25,440
and there was a road that used to

331
00:13:28,550 --> 00:13:27,519
circumnavigate the whole moor so we

332
00:13:31,350 --> 00:13:28,560
drove

333
00:13:33,190 --> 00:13:31,360
on this road we went all around

334
00:13:34,389 --> 00:13:33,200
uh i managed to persuade him to slow

335
00:13:36,310 --> 00:13:34,399
down at one point

336
00:13:38,069 --> 00:13:36,320
and we never saw anything again that

337
00:13:39,189 --> 00:13:38,079
night so what it was i don't know but it

338
00:13:40,870 --> 00:13:39,199
was

339
00:13:42,389 --> 00:13:40,880
fairly typical

340
00:13:44,629 --> 00:13:42,399
with the sight of things that were

341
00:13:47,590 --> 00:13:44,639
reported in and around

342
00:13:50,389 --> 00:13:47,600
uh this area that we call carlton moore

343
00:13:53,110 --> 00:13:50,399
uh near skipton in in north yorkshire

344
00:13:55,670 --> 00:13:53,120
i'm making it what you will martin i i

345
00:13:57,189 --> 00:13:55,680
have no idea i don't talk about it much

346
00:14:00,550 --> 00:13:57,199
because graham's

347
00:14:02,230 --> 00:14:00,560
passed away sadly so he can't confirm it

348
00:14:04,069 --> 00:14:02,240
and with no photographic i mean my

349
00:14:06,069 --> 00:14:04,079
camera was in the boot of the car you

350
00:14:08,949 --> 00:14:06,079
know yeah

351
00:14:10,389 --> 00:14:08,959
yeah you know

352
00:14:13,269 --> 00:14:10,399
did that light with the was the

353
00:14:17,030 --> 00:14:13,279
formation really was it

354
00:14:19,110 --> 00:14:17,040
like a a very unique formation and

355
00:14:20,550 --> 00:14:19,120
symmetrical and all that absolutely i

356
00:14:21,430 --> 00:14:20,560
you know i don't know if you've seen you

357
00:14:23,829 --> 00:14:21,440
know

358
00:14:25,750 --> 00:14:23,839
2001 the space odyssey the moon where

359
00:14:28,069 --> 00:14:25,760
they have the space stations that's

360
00:14:30,470 --> 00:14:28,079
circular people like that right it was

361
00:14:32,150 --> 00:14:30,480
like the london eye a big big catherine

362
00:14:34,870 --> 00:14:32,160
wheel just

363
00:14:35,670 --> 00:14:34,880
stationed me there multi-coloured

364
00:14:37,509 --> 00:14:35,680
you know

365
00:14:39,509 --> 00:14:37,519
complete and i don't i don't know what

366
00:14:41,670 --> 00:14:39,519
it was but there's nothing there martian

367
00:14:44,629 --> 00:14:41,680
there's nothing on that more that could

368
00:14:46,949 --> 00:14:44,639
account for it i mean absolutely zero um

369
00:14:49,350 --> 00:14:46,959
at the far end of the mort for example

370
00:14:50,949 --> 00:14:49,360
there used to be a gentleman that used

371
00:14:52,389 --> 00:14:50,959
to run a cattery

372
00:14:53,990 --> 00:14:52,399
so you you know take your cat there

373
00:14:55,110 --> 00:14:54,000
while you leave it there while you go on

374
00:14:57,509 --> 00:14:55,120
holiday

375
00:14:58,949 --> 00:14:57,519
um he'd had a sighting

376
00:15:01,430 --> 00:14:58,959
and um

377
00:15:02,629 --> 00:15:01,440
we we interviewed him some time before

378
00:15:05,110 --> 00:15:02,639
this

379
00:15:08,310 --> 00:15:05,120
when you come out of his house

380
00:15:10,389 --> 00:15:08,320
the the moor just fell away behind you

381
00:15:11,350 --> 00:15:10,399
and he said philip i had a routine every

382
00:15:12,949 --> 00:15:11,360
night

383
00:15:15,030 --> 00:15:12,959
you know no matter what the weather i

384
00:15:16,790 --> 00:15:15,040
used to do one last check

385
00:15:19,030 --> 00:15:16,800
of all the i don't know what you put the

386
00:15:21,030 --> 00:15:19,040
cats in you know

387
00:15:22,790 --> 00:15:21,040
but he said i did it every night you

388
00:15:24,470 --> 00:15:22,800
know without fail

389
00:15:25,829 --> 00:15:24,480
he said i come out one night i check

390
00:15:27,509 --> 00:15:25,839
this and i check that and i turned

391
00:15:29,829 --> 00:15:27,519
around and there's that

392
00:15:32,069 --> 00:15:29,839
he lived in a stone cottage

393
00:15:34,870 --> 00:15:32,079
and he said there are these

394
00:15:37,189 --> 00:15:34,880
five huge orange lights and again i'm

395
00:15:39,030 --> 00:15:37,199
not talking about little things in the

396
00:15:41,509 --> 00:15:39,040
distance i'm talking

397
00:15:43,350 --> 00:15:41,519
literally right behind his house and he

398
00:15:46,389 --> 00:15:43,360
said all i can describe as they were

399
00:15:48,310 --> 00:15:46,399
doing aerial acrobatics

400
00:15:49,910 --> 00:15:48,320
right behind the house

401
00:15:51,430 --> 00:15:49,920
and he said

402
00:15:52,870 --> 00:15:51,440
you know i have no idea what the i

403
00:15:54,470 --> 00:15:52,880
thought these were the kinds of things

404
00:15:57,269 --> 00:15:54,480
that were reported

405
00:15:59,430 --> 00:15:57,279
um in and around these areas

406
00:16:01,749 --> 00:15:59,440
all kinds of things man we made

407
00:16:03,269 --> 00:16:01,759
ourselves very visible in these areas

408
00:16:05,269 --> 00:16:03,279
martin's it's pre

409
00:16:07,430 --> 00:16:05,279
internet day so we would

410
00:16:09,829 --> 00:16:07,440
hand out flyers to

411
00:16:11,910 --> 00:16:09,839
local police stations

412
00:16:13,350 --> 00:16:11,920
reference libraries even the local pub

413
00:16:15,670 --> 00:16:13,360
there used to be a little pub called the

414
00:16:17,110 --> 00:16:15,680
swan in carlton village

415
00:16:19,189 --> 00:16:17,120
put a flyer and we asked them if we

416
00:16:20,790 --> 00:16:19,199
could put it on their notice board

417
00:16:22,790 --> 00:16:20,800
and it was always amazing when people

418
00:16:25,590 --> 00:16:22,800
would contact us we'd always ask them

419
00:16:27,189 --> 00:16:25,600
how they found us so we knew which which

420
00:16:28,230 --> 00:16:27,199
things were working and which things

421
00:16:32,710 --> 00:16:28,240
weren't

422
00:16:33,509 --> 00:16:32,720
directory or anything like that um

423
00:16:37,189 --> 00:16:33,519
but

424
00:16:38,949 --> 00:16:37,199
we managed to see it ourselves well i

425
00:16:41,189 --> 00:16:38,959
did anyway and a great grain didn't

426
00:16:43,749 --> 00:16:41,199
unfortunately um

427
00:16:46,230 --> 00:16:43,759
but it was our hope and intention to get

428
00:16:47,749 --> 00:16:46,240
up close and personal and photograph it

429
00:16:50,629 --> 00:16:47,759
but we never managed to do that i'm

430
00:16:51,670 --> 00:16:50,639
afraid yeah well you know it's

431
00:16:53,350 --> 00:16:51,680
one of the

432
00:16:55,350 --> 00:16:53,360
the ways that i've had

433
00:16:57,509 --> 00:16:55,360
conversations with people

434
00:17:00,710 --> 00:16:57,519
it's kind of funny but wearing

435
00:17:02,310 --> 00:17:00,720
uh a ufo t-shirt or hat

436
00:17:03,749 --> 00:17:02,320
and people just open up and start

437
00:17:05,029 --> 00:17:03,759
talking about it's pretty interesting in

438
00:17:07,350 --> 00:17:05,039
the different ways

439
00:17:09,590 --> 00:17:07,360
that uh you know but it's so many people

440
00:17:12,309 --> 00:17:09,600
which is really amazing

441
00:17:14,949 --> 00:17:12,319
that either had some type of sighting or

442
00:17:17,189 --> 00:17:14,959
their relative did or friend or

443
00:17:18,549 --> 00:17:17,199
something like that so and it's easier

444
00:17:21,350 --> 00:17:18,559
today than ever

445
00:17:23,350 --> 00:17:21,360
you know with um because of the stigma

446
00:17:24,949 --> 00:17:23,360
uh being less and all that earlier i

447
00:17:26,630 --> 00:17:24,959
mentioned to you

448
00:17:28,710 --> 00:17:26,640
that you probably don't go say that

449
00:17:30,150 --> 00:17:28,720
these are little green men you know you

450
00:17:33,830 --> 00:17:30,160
know where they're from but i just

451
00:17:36,630 --> 00:17:33,840
wanted in that same realm i wanted to uh

452
00:17:38,230 --> 00:17:36,640
talk about this article that i was sent

453
00:17:40,310 --> 00:17:38,240
from a listener

454
00:17:41,990 --> 00:17:40,320
and this is in the new york times and

455
00:17:44,789 --> 00:17:42,000
nasa plans to join

456
00:17:47,029 --> 00:17:44,799
ufo research efforts efforts which i

457
00:17:49,430 --> 00:17:47,039
think is is great and all that but this

458
00:17:51,110 --> 00:17:49,440
is written by kenneth chang and this is

459
00:17:53,430 --> 00:17:51,120
his first line

460
00:17:55,830 --> 00:17:53,440
ufos almost certainly are not alien

461
00:17:56,870 --> 00:17:55,840
visitors buzzing buzzing the earth's uh

462
00:17:59,270 --> 00:17:56,880
skies

463
00:18:01,430 --> 00:17:59,280
um you know it starts out like that like

464
00:18:02,950 --> 00:18:01,440
he knows what they are yeah you know he

465
00:18:05,029 --> 00:18:02,960
he knows what they are they're not

466
00:18:07,830 --> 00:18:05,039
they're most certainly not alien

467
00:18:09,430 --> 00:18:07,840
visitors and and i find that kind of

468
00:18:11,669 --> 00:18:09,440
funny that

469
00:18:12,950 --> 00:18:11,679
there are people like on both

470
00:18:14,549 --> 00:18:12,960
sides of this

471
00:18:15,669 --> 00:18:14,559
but he already made up his mind that

472
00:18:16,470 --> 00:18:15,679
they're not

473
00:18:18,470 --> 00:18:16,480
yeah

474
00:18:19,750 --> 00:18:18,480
i mean you can be honest and say in my

475
00:18:22,390 --> 00:18:19,760
my opinion

476
00:18:23,909 --> 00:18:22,400
and that's all it is but he's trying to

477
00:18:25,669 --> 00:18:23,919
say that as a fact

478
00:18:29,350 --> 00:18:25,679
right you know and it's not a fact

479
00:18:31,590 --> 00:18:29,360
that's his his opinion uh and uh you

480
00:18:33,590 --> 00:18:31,600
know i could say you know i i believe

481
00:18:35,430 --> 00:18:33,600
you know aliens are

482
00:18:36,789 --> 00:18:35,440
you know little fairies at the bottom of

483
00:18:39,110 --> 00:18:36,799
the garden but it's not a fact that

484
00:18:41,190 --> 00:18:39,120
would be my own opinion yeah you know

485
00:18:43,190 --> 00:18:41,200
yeah and but it's unfortunate when they

486
00:18:45,750 --> 00:18:43,200
start like that and i think you know

487
00:18:48,150 --> 00:18:45,760
when we get any official body

488
00:18:49,830 --> 00:18:48,160
uh as significant as nasa

489
00:18:51,909 --> 00:18:49,840
involved in the subject i mean people

490
00:18:52,950 --> 00:18:51,919
have been calling for it for years for

491
00:18:56,310 --> 00:18:52,960
decades

492
00:18:59,430 --> 00:18:56,320
i think back in the 70s nasa were asked

493
00:19:03,270 --> 00:18:59,440
to get involved in the subject and and

494
00:19:05,350 --> 00:19:03,280
they declined um perhaps they saw

495
00:19:06,789 --> 00:19:05,360
how project blue book was run and it

496
00:19:08,710 --> 00:19:06,799
wasn't that great

497
00:19:10,549 --> 00:19:08,720
and they didn't want to get involved in

498
00:19:12,470 --> 00:19:10,559
anything of that nature but now times

499
00:19:13,669 --> 00:19:12,480
have changed of course

500
00:19:15,350 --> 00:19:13,679
and uh

501
00:19:17,510 --> 00:19:15,360
especially when the department of

502
00:19:19,110 --> 00:19:17,520
defense are trying to break down the

503
00:19:21,029 --> 00:19:19,120
stigma whether you believe them or not

504
00:19:22,390 --> 00:19:21,039
it's a different matter i can only quote

505
00:19:24,870 --> 00:19:22,400
what they've said but they're trying to

506
00:19:26,789 --> 00:19:24,880
break down the stigma

507
00:19:28,789 --> 00:19:26,799
um certainly from

508
00:19:30,710 --> 00:19:28,799
you know military people military

509
00:19:32,630 --> 00:19:30,720
personnel to report their sightings to

510
00:19:34,950 --> 00:19:32,640
them and it's something we've battled

511
00:19:37,510 --> 00:19:34,960
against as civilian researchers for

512
00:19:39,830 --> 00:19:37,520
decades is the stigma

513
00:19:42,150 --> 00:19:39,840
and um you know i remember speaking to a

514
00:19:43,029 --> 00:19:42,160
number of people and i would not say no

515
00:19:51,270 --> 00:19:43,039
no

516
00:19:53,830 --> 00:19:51,280
but it was it was the stigma uh

517
00:19:56,470 --> 00:19:53,840
but we're in an era now where

518
00:19:58,630 --> 00:19:56,480
you know the stigma is vastly reduced

519
00:20:00,710 --> 00:19:58,640
compared to what it used to be

520
00:20:02,789 --> 00:20:00,720
so that can only be a good thing martin

521
00:20:04,630 --> 00:20:02,799
you know when when you see a lot of the

522
00:20:06,630 --> 00:20:04,640
mainstream media taking the subject

523
00:20:08,950 --> 00:20:06,640
seriously like they did

524
00:20:10,149 --> 00:20:08,960
in the middle of the 1990s when dr john

525
00:20:11,830 --> 00:20:10,159
mack

526
00:20:13,750 --> 00:20:11,840
uh stepped forward and said there's

527
00:20:15,430 --> 00:20:13,760
something to this and then you know

528
00:20:16,789 --> 00:20:15,440
you're doing a disservice by just

529
00:20:17,830 --> 00:20:16,799
dismissing it

530
00:20:20,070 --> 00:20:17,840
you then

531
00:20:21,830 --> 00:20:20,080
had a lot of the media take a serious

532
00:20:23,990 --> 00:20:21,840
look at the subject plus we had the

533
00:20:26,710 --> 00:20:24,000
x-files which helped you know the tv

534
00:20:29,270 --> 00:20:26,720
show was growing great guns yes and and

535
00:20:31,990 --> 00:20:29,280
you had a harvard professor a pulitzer

536
00:20:33,590 --> 00:20:32,000
prize winner as well um

537
00:20:36,470 --> 00:20:33,600
saying look guys you know there is

538
00:20:38,149 --> 00:20:36,480
something to this subject uh and

539
00:20:40,390 --> 00:20:38,159
similarly now we've got the department

540
00:20:42,390 --> 00:20:40,400
of defense you have the congressional

541
00:20:44,390 --> 00:20:42,400
hearings whether you believe that it'll

542
00:20:46,390 --> 00:20:44,400
amount to anything or not doesn't really

543
00:20:48,789 --> 00:20:46,400
matter at this moment in time what it

544
00:20:51,750 --> 00:20:48,799
has done as far as the general public's

545
00:20:53,909 --> 00:20:51,760
concerned and a lot n

546
00:20:55,830 --> 00:20:53,919
never will be all it's persuaded the

547
00:20:59,270 --> 00:20:55,840
mainstream media that perhaps we should

548
00:21:02,230 --> 00:20:59,280
take a a serious look at this subject

549
00:21:05,270 --> 00:21:02,240
what what they used to call it here um

550
00:21:07,110 --> 00:21:05,280
martin was a silly season subject

551
00:21:08,630 --> 00:21:07,120
and the media and of course in the

552
00:21:11,029 --> 00:21:08,640
summer here

553
00:21:12,070 --> 00:21:11,039
uh we have no football football season's

554
00:21:14,070 --> 00:21:12,080
finished

555
00:21:16,789 --> 00:21:14,080
parliament is in recess

556
00:21:18,470 --> 00:21:16,799
so they were looking for stories

557
00:21:20,950 --> 00:21:18,480
and and that's when they said oh it's a

558
00:21:23,350 --> 00:21:20,960
silly season subject that so

559
00:21:26,710 --> 00:21:23,360
when i was a conference organizer i

560
00:21:28,230 --> 00:21:26,720
always had the conferences in the summer

561
00:21:30,470 --> 00:21:28,240
because i knew i could probably

562
00:21:31,990 --> 00:21:30,480
guarantee getting some media attention

563
00:21:34,149 --> 00:21:32,000
because the football season and

564
00:21:34,870 --> 00:21:34,159
finishing parliament was in recess you

565
00:21:39,190 --> 00:21:34,880
know

566
00:21:42,310 --> 00:21:39,200
i've been speaking to a gentleman just

567
00:21:43,830 --> 00:21:42,320
just today who runs a very very

568
00:21:46,390 --> 00:21:43,840
high

569
00:21:48,070 --> 00:21:46,400
uh public and i mean hybrid publication

570
00:21:48,950 --> 00:21:48,080
it would be the last place you would

571
00:21:52,390 --> 00:21:48,960
think

572
00:21:55,830 --> 00:21:52,400
of of of detailing ufos or having an

573
00:21:57,029 --> 00:21:55,840
article about ufos uh and he he's

574
00:21:59,590 --> 00:21:57,039
considering

575
00:22:02,390 --> 00:21:59,600
uh publishing something in it i mean

576
00:22:04,230 --> 00:22:02,400
it's astonishing um and let's hope it

577
00:22:06,390 --> 00:22:04,240
lasts shall we

578
00:22:09,190 --> 00:22:06,400
yes and that's a very good point about

579
00:22:10,789 --> 00:22:09,200
it lasting because you know you you look

580
00:22:12,870 --> 00:22:10,799
like now if you

581
00:22:15,510 --> 00:22:12,880
i try to stay away from the news as much

582
00:22:17,830 --> 00:22:15,520
as possible but if you look at the news

583
00:22:20,549 --> 00:22:17,840
um they're hardly you know ukraine comes

584
00:22:22,310 --> 00:22:20,559
up like way way down and and it's still

585
00:22:23,110 --> 00:22:22,320
going on and there's still

586
00:22:25,350 --> 00:22:23,120
you know

587
00:22:29,590 --> 00:22:25,360
unfortunately people dying

588
00:22:31,029 --> 00:22:29,600
for who knows what uh a big ego uh putin

589
00:22:31,830 --> 00:22:31,039
and all that but

590
00:22:34,549 --> 00:22:31,840
uh

591
00:22:36,149 --> 00:22:34,559
what i'm getting at is i'm hoping

592
00:22:39,270 --> 00:22:36,159
you know this has public interest right

593
00:22:42,470 --> 00:22:39,280
now yep and we're we're so ephemeral

594
00:22:43,590 --> 00:22:42,480
that it's here and gone so quickly and

595
00:22:45,510 --> 00:22:43,600
i'm just

596
00:22:46,549 --> 00:22:45,520
you know part of me wonders

597
00:22:47,430 --> 00:22:46,559
if

598
00:22:49,350 --> 00:22:47,440
they

599
00:22:51,029 --> 00:22:49,360
just want to drag this out until it

600
00:22:53,110 --> 00:22:51,039
becomes nothing

601
00:22:54,710 --> 00:22:53,120
um well we'll have to wait and see you

602
00:22:57,029 --> 00:22:54,720
but but it's it's still in the public

603
00:22:58,390 --> 00:22:57,039
domain for example on daytime television

604
00:22:59,750 --> 00:22:58,400
here today

605
00:23:03,190 --> 00:22:59,760
we had uh

606
00:23:05,510 --> 00:23:03,200
britain's astronaut major tim peaks

607
00:23:09,430 --> 00:23:05,520
interviewed live in the studios and he's

608
00:23:10,870 --> 00:23:09,440
not ruling out e.t

609
00:23:12,390 --> 00:23:10,880
he's opening remarks with the office

610
00:23:14,710 --> 00:23:12,400
that's good that's what it should be

611
00:23:16,549 --> 00:23:14,720
yeah he's opening remarks

612
00:23:18,149 --> 00:23:16,559
well the opposite to that that article

613
00:23:20,870 --> 00:23:18,159
you've just read out and he's saying he

614
00:23:22,710 --> 00:23:20,880
did they don't appear to be you know of

615
00:23:24,310 --> 00:23:22,720
earthly manufacturer

616
00:23:26,230 --> 00:23:24,320
he's not saying he knows anything you

617
00:23:27,350 --> 00:23:26,240
know he's just that was just voicing his

618
00:23:29,669 --> 00:23:27,360
opinion

619
00:23:32,230 --> 00:23:29,679
but uh he's a bonafide astronaut you

620
00:23:36,390 --> 00:23:32,240
know he's been on the space station

621
00:23:39,510 --> 00:23:36,400
um i i was i was surprised to be honest

622
00:23:41,430 --> 00:23:39,520
you know what he had to say but you know

623
00:23:43,510 --> 00:23:41,440
so that's that's going to make headlines

624
00:23:45,430 --> 00:23:43,520
in in many different places

625
00:23:47,190 --> 00:23:45,440
and we'll see how long it lasts

626
00:23:48,230 --> 00:23:47,200
right right now

627
00:23:50,870 --> 00:23:48,240
we're going to be talking about your

628
00:23:53,590 --> 00:23:50,880
book but before that um besides what

629
00:23:54,870 --> 00:23:53,600
we're talking about now these last

630
00:23:57,269 --> 00:23:54,880
couple of minutes

631
00:23:59,029 --> 00:23:57,279
what other things have you seen change

632
00:24:02,230 --> 00:23:59,039
since you started to look at the topic

633
00:24:04,149 --> 00:24:02,240
back in 1980

634
00:24:06,630 --> 00:24:04,159
whoa all kinds of things have changed

635
00:24:08,470 --> 00:24:06,640
martin you know certainly the stigma

636
00:24:10,710 --> 00:24:08,480
that that's been a biggie i mean i

637
00:24:12,630 --> 00:24:10,720
remember

638
00:24:13,990 --> 00:24:12,640
when i was trying to research my first

639
00:24:16,070 --> 00:24:14,000
book which was on

640
00:24:17,669 --> 00:24:16,080
uh abduction accounts in the uk the

641
00:24:18,630 --> 00:24:17,679
amount of people who just would not talk

642
00:24:21,510 --> 00:24:18,640
to us

643
00:24:23,430 --> 00:24:21,520
you know i mean i i have a a file full

644
00:24:25,590 --> 00:24:23,440
of letters that i kept

645
00:24:27,510 --> 00:24:25,600
you know because no internet in those

646
00:24:30,549 --> 00:24:27,520
days martin you either had to phone

647
00:24:32,470 --> 00:24:30,559
someone or write to them okay get in

648
00:24:35,430 --> 00:24:32,480
your car and go visit them

649
00:24:36,710 --> 00:24:35,440
so the initial contact was mainly made

650
00:24:39,350 --> 00:24:36,720
um

651
00:24:40,310 --> 00:24:39,360
in the post you know writing to people

652
00:24:42,950 --> 00:24:40,320
and

653
00:24:45,110 --> 00:24:42,960
there's one lady who's in the uh

654
00:24:47,909 --> 00:24:45,120
it was in my files

655
00:24:51,350 --> 00:24:47,919
and i wrote to her back in in in the

656
00:24:53,269 --> 00:24:51,360
late 1980s early 1990s and i knew she'd

657
00:24:57,510 --> 00:24:53,279
had an encounter but she didn't actually

658
00:24:58,549 --> 00:24:57,520
reveal it for 20 30 years you know

659
00:24:59,350 --> 00:24:58,559
um

660
00:25:01,110 --> 00:24:59,360
but

661
00:25:03,350 --> 00:25:01,120
what had happened was the stigma had

662
00:25:05,430 --> 00:25:03,360
changed you know she felt confident that

663
00:25:06,710 --> 00:25:05,440
she could do that so that's that that's

664
00:25:08,149 --> 00:25:06,720
a good thing

665
00:25:10,549 --> 00:25:08,159
and of course

666
00:25:11,990 --> 00:25:10,559
uh the sharing of information is much

667
00:25:13,830 --> 00:25:12,000
easier today

668
00:25:16,070 --> 00:25:13,840
um than it's ever been because of the

669
00:25:17,350 --> 00:25:16,080
technology that we have at our disposal

670
00:25:20,230 --> 00:25:17,360
i used to be

671
00:25:22,390 --> 00:25:20,240
the mufon representative for england

672
00:25:24,230 --> 00:25:22,400
and and the head guy move from them was

673
00:25:26,549 --> 00:25:24,240
walter andrews

674
00:25:27,750 --> 00:25:26,559
and i i used to write to walt and i

675
00:25:29,750 --> 00:25:27,760
remember him saying at one of our

676
00:25:31,830 --> 00:25:29,760
conferences he says philip writes to me

677
00:25:33,510 --> 00:25:31,840
faster than i can reply

678
00:25:35,909 --> 00:25:33,520
you know

679
00:25:37,510 --> 00:25:35,919
well now we've got email and and

680
00:25:39,190 --> 00:25:37,520
marvelous things like like we've got

681
00:25:40,390 --> 00:25:39,200
this technology you and i are speaking

682
00:25:42,390 --> 00:25:40,400
with today

683
00:25:45,029 --> 00:25:42,400
and uh i still

684
00:25:46,470 --> 00:25:45,039
i still think it's fantastic

685
00:25:47,909 --> 00:25:46,480
i'm a yorkshire man i'm born and bred in

686
00:25:49,990 --> 00:25:47,919
the auction we're known for being tight

687
00:25:51,669 --> 00:25:50,000
with our money martin so i think it's

688
00:25:53,909 --> 00:25:51,679
amazing that i can speak to people

689
00:25:56,470 --> 00:25:53,919
around the world free of charge you know

690
00:25:58,149 --> 00:25:56,480
it's it's great um

691
00:26:00,149 --> 00:25:58,159
so those two things you know the

692
00:26:03,909 --> 00:26:00,159
technology in some degree has helped

693
00:26:05,269 --> 00:26:03,919
enormously um on the downside

694
00:26:06,549 --> 00:26:05,279
like when i

695
00:26:09,350 --> 00:26:06,559
first began

696
00:26:11,029 --> 00:26:09,360
i joined my local ufo group and there

697
00:26:12,070 --> 00:26:11,039
used to be lots of them throughout the

698
00:26:14,070 --> 00:26:12,080
uk

699
00:26:15,669 --> 00:26:14,080
plus there was a national organization

700
00:26:17,990 --> 00:26:15,679
as well where they've pretty much not

701
00:26:19,909 --> 00:26:18,000
all of them but most of them have gone

702
00:26:21,669 --> 00:26:19,919
you know they used to hold monthly

703
00:26:23,029 --> 00:26:21,679
meetings publish their own little

704
00:26:25,350 --> 00:26:23,039
newsletters

705
00:26:27,990 --> 00:26:25,360
i mean they would have you know

706
00:26:30,549 --> 00:26:28,000
had some fascinating information in them

707
00:26:33,269 --> 00:26:30,559
uh and we made our own little magazine

708
00:26:34,549 --> 00:26:33,279
um you know it started off with about 30

709
00:26:35,990 --> 00:26:34,559
copies

710
00:26:37,909 --> 00:26:36,000
and uh

711
00:26:39,669 --> 00:26:37,919
i look at it now think oh my god dude we

712
00:26:42,310 --> 00:26:39,679
actually used to charge money for these

713
00:26:45,350 --> 00:26:43,110
so

714
00:26:46,950 --> 00:26:45,360
you know there's been pluses and minuses

715
00:26:49,510 --> 00:26:46,960
in that respect

716
00:26:51,750 --> 00:26:49,520
yeah that's right and uh uh you know

717
00:26:53,669 --> 00:26:51,760
then that it's a double-edged sword you

718
00:26:56,310 --> 00:26:53,679
know it really is because

719
00:26:58,549 --> 00:26:56,320
you know you can get so much information

720
00:27:01,669 --> 00:26:58,559
but what is the real information you

721
00:27:02,710 --> 00:27:01,679
know that's that's the tricky part

722
00:27:07,669 --> 00:27:02,720
you know

723
00:27:09,190 --> 00:27:07,679
i mean we're here you are

724
00:27:11,430 --> 00:27:09,200
i don't know how many thousand miles

725
00:27:13,110 --> 00:27:11,440
away you are from me and

726
00:27:14,549 --> 00:27:13,120
here we are recording i mean who would

727
00:27:16,230 --> 00:27:14,559
have ever thought that you know back in

728
00:27:18,310 --> 00:27:16,240
1980 that we could do something like

729
00:27:20,630 --> 00:27:18,320
this it would have been science science

730
00:27:21,430 --> 00:27:20,640
fiction would you not

731
00:27:23,909 --> 00:27:21,440
yeah

732
00:27:25,350 --> 00:27:23,919
and were you a fan of science fiction as

733
00:27:27,510 --> 00:27:25,360
well a lot of people

734
00:27:30,710 --> 00:27:27,520
were you know early on that started to

735
00:27:32,789 --> 00:27:30,720
look at ufo a little bit not not not not

736
00:27:34,710 --> 00:27:32,799
overly interested and still i still

737
00:27:37,269 --> 00:27:34,720
aren't to be honest i've read a few

738
00:27:39,830 --> 00:27:37,279
science fiction books but

739
00:27:41,269 --> 00:27:39,840
only a handful uh i was more of a horror

740
00:27:42,549 --> 00:27:41,279
movie fan

741
00:27:45,510 --> 00:27:42,559
and um

742
00:27:47,029 --> 00:27:45,520
our local cinema in wakefield used to

743
00:27:49,269 --> 00:27:47,039
have uh

744
00:27:51,590 --> 00:27:49,279
you could join it and they had a whole

745
00:27:53,669 --> 00:27:51,600
all night horror showings

746
00:27:55,350 --> 00:27:53,679
so you go when when the main there was

747
00:27:57,110 --> 00:27:55,360
no multi screens there you know i had

748
00:27:59,669 --> 00:27:57,120
three screens

749
00:28:01,350 --> 00:27:59,679
and someone once the main features had

750
00:28:02,630 --> 00:28:01,360
finished at night all those weirdos

751
00:28:04,789 --> 00:28:02,640
would pile in

752
00:28:07,029 --> 00:28:04,799
and watch a stream of horror films what

753
00:28:09,350 --> 00:28:07,039
used to be peculiar about it though

754
00:28:11,010 --> 00:28:09,360
martin just to lighten it in between

755
00:28:13,909 --> 00:28:11,020
they used to show cartoons

756
00:28:14,630 --> 00:28:13,919
[Laughter]

757
00:28:16,549 --> 00:28:14,640
so

758
00:28:17,909 --> 00:28:16,559
i preferred horror films rather than

759
00:28:19,110 --> 00:28:17,919
science fiction

760
00:28:21,510 --> 00:28:19,120
uh although

761
00:28:23,510 --> 00:28:21,520
one of my favorite movies of all time is

762
00:28:25,350 --> 00:28:23,520
a science fiction film and that's the

763
00:28:27,830 --> 00:28:25,360
original version uh

764
00:28:30,870 --> 00:28:27,840
of uh the day they are stood still oh

765
00:28:33,190 --> 00:28:30,880
yes yeah um so um

766
00:28:35,350 --> 00:28:33,200
but no no i'm not not a great fan of

767
00:28:38,070 --> 00:28:35,360
science fiction no but it's so you know

768
00:28:39,190 --> 00:28:38,080
i i like some of it but

769
00:28:46,389 --> 00:28:39,200
no

770
00:28:48,070 --> 00:28:46,399
five or six years ago

771
00:28:49,110 --> 00:28:48,080
and they said well you know there's not

772
00:28:50,310 --> 00:28:49,120
a lot of

773
00:28:52,789 --> 00:28:50,320
sightings

774
00:28:54,710 --> 00:28:52,799
where i live because of the weather

775
00:28:58,630 --> 00:28:54,720
and um is that

776
00:29:00,149 --> 00:28:58,640
do you have a a lot of cloudy rain stays

777
00:29:02,310 --> 00:29:00,159
there where you're at

778
00:29:04,470 --> 00:29:02,320
well you know we get a bit of everything

779
00:29:05,430 --> 00:29:04,480
here in the uk uh you know i don't think

780
00:29:08,950 --> 00:29:05,440
you can

781
00:29:11,110 --> 00:29:08,960
accuse the weather you blame the weather

782
00:29:12,870 --> 00:29:11,120
it's certain parts of the country are

783
00:29:15,590 --> 00:29:12,880
renowned for its bad weather they always

784
00:29:17,350 --> 00:29:15,600
take make fun of manchester as always

785
00:29:19,190 --> 00:29:17,360
raining because

786
00:29:20,230 --> 00:29:19,200
manchester is at the top of the pennine

787
00:29:22,389 --> 00:29:20,240
hills

788
00:29:24,310 --> 00:29:22,399
and of course we get a lot of

789
00:29:27,190 --> 00:29:24,320
weather systems coming in from the west

790
00:29:28,710 --> 00:29:27,200
and when they reach the hills of course

791
00:29:30,630 --> 00:29:28,720
the only way that the weather systems

792
00:29:32,070 --> 00:29:30,640
can get any higher is to dump whatever

793
00:29:35,510 --> 00:29:32,080
water they're carrying and it usually

794
00:29:38,070 --> 00:29:35,520
ends up being on manchester you know

795
00:29:40,789 --> 00:29:38,080
it's a great city by the way is a truly

796
00:29:42,230 --> 00:29:40,799
great city so but no i mean i don't

797
00:29:43,750 --> 00:29:42,240
think you can't blame the weather you

798
00:29:45,430 --> 00:29:43,760
really get i mean it's a beautiful day

799
00:29:48,470 --> 00:29:45,440
here today so i've got the t-shirt on

800
00:29:51,430 --> 00:29:48,480
martin oh yes you know yeah yeah yeah so

801
00:29:53,510 --> 00:29:51,440
i you know you mentioned um you did

802
00:29:55,110 --> 00:29:53,520
other things and

803
00:29:57,350 --> 00:29:55,120
one of the things you think about when

804
00:30:01,430 --> 00:29:57,360
it comes to abductions or experiences

805
00:30:03,430 --> 00:30:01,440
whatever they it it's it seems to be

806
00:30:05,669 --> 00:30:03,440
lighter in

807
00:30:07,269 --> 00:30:05,679
basically europe than in the united

808
00:30:09,590 --> 00:30:07,279
states seems like there's a lot of

809
00:30:11,190 --> 00:30:09,600
people that are claiming they're

810
00:30:13,190 --> 00:30:11,200
experiencing

811
00:30:14,950 --> 00:30:13,200
um you know abductions that type of

812
00:30:17,269 --> 00:30:14,960
thing and i know you wrote that book

813
00:30:18,630 --> 00:30:17,279
early on would you say that's accurate

814
00:30:20,230 --> 00:30:18,640
or would you say that there's a lot of

815
00:30:22,470 --> 00:30:20,240
people up in

816
00:30:23,830 --> 00:30:22,480
in europe or england

817
00:30:25,190 --> 00:30:23,840
that talk about

818
00:30:27,750 --> 00:30:25,200
having these experiences i don't know

819
00:30:29,269 --> 00:30:27,760
it's it's difficult to say that martin

820
00:30:30,950 --> 00:30:29,279
because

821
00:30:32,630 --> 00:30:30,960
we don't know how many accounts have

822
00:30:35,029 --> 00:30:32,640
gone unreported

823
00:30:37,510 --> 00:30:35,039
you know i know from my own research

824
00:30:38,470 --> 00:30:37,520
that like i said i've got a file back

825
00:30:40,549 --> 00:30:38,480
from a

826
00:30:42,549 --> 00:30:40,559
i did i did a big feature for one of the

827
00:30:44,149 --> 00:30:42,559
daily newspapers once and it encouraged

828
00:30:45,990 --> 00:30:44,159
people to write to me

829
00:30:47,430 --> 00:30:46,000
uh and they you know they're up to me in

830
00:30:48,470 --> 00:30:47,440
their droves

831
00:30:49,830 --> 00:30:48,480
um

832
00:30:53,190 --> 00:30:49,840
and these were people who had never

833
00:30:54,950 --> 00:30:53,200
reported that these incidents beforehand

834
00:30:56,950 --> 00:30:54,960
so it's always difficult to say there's

835
00:30:58,950 --> 00:30:56,960
more of this here and more of that there

836
00:31:00,870 --> 00:30:58,960
because there's a great deal that we

837
00:31:01,830 --> 00:31:00,880
i'll give you an example

838
00:31:05,509 --> 00:31:01,840
um

839
00:31:08,470 --> 00:31:05,519
i did some tv work last year

840
00:31:11,350 --> 00:31:08,480
and during lockdown when we were allowed

841
00:31:13,830 --> 00:31:11,360
to to come out a local guy

842
00:31:16,310 --> 00:31:13,840
contacted me and says you know mr mantle

843
00:31:18,149 --> 00:31:16,320
up saw you on the tv

844
00:31:19,430 --> 00:31:18,159
realize you you're quite close to where

845
00:31:20,630 --> 00:31:19,440
i live i've got something i want to come

846
00:31:22,389 --> 00:31:20,640
and show you

847
00:31:25,029 --> 00:31:22,399
so roundy come

848
00:31:27,269 --> 00:31:25,039
now this was his wife's

849
00:31:29,990 --> 00:31:27,279
grandfather

850
00:31:32,870 --> 00:31:30,000
uh it was deceased and he said because

851
00:31:35,269 --> 00:31:32,880
this area where we live uh martin

852
00:31:36,630 --> 00:31:35,279
was a big industrial area

853
00:31:38,549 --> 00:31:36,640
like i said my father worked down the

854
00:31:40,950 --> 00:31:38,559
coal mine all your life there was mills

855
00:31:43,990 --> 00:31:40,960
and factories i worked in a factory

856
00:31:47,430 --> 00:31:44,000
and um he says his wife's grandfather

857
00:31:49,590 --> 00:31:47,440
had been a um a mining engineer so he

858
00:31:51,430 --> 00:31:49,600
would design the lift shafts and and all

859
00:31:54,070 --> 00:31:51,440
this kind of stuff

860
00:31:57,269 --> 00:31:54,080
and before he died he wrote his memoirs

861
00:31:59,830 --> 00:31:57,279
it's not a huge great volume of work and

862
00:32:01,590 --> 00:31:59,840
he printed 10 copies out for the members

863
00:32:04,389 --> 00:32:01,600
of the family

864
00:32:06,710 --> 00:32:04,399
and he said it's split into two parts

865
00:32:08,470 --> 00:32:06,720
the second part is about his life as a

866
00:32:10,389 --> 00:32:08,480
mining engineer

867
00:32:12,789 --> 00:32:10,399
and he said don't read it phillip

868
00:32:14,389 --> 00:32:12,799
because he's dreadfully boring it really

869
00:32:17,590 --> 00:32:14,399
is you know

870
00:32:19,669 --> 00:32:17,600
but his first part is is about his life

871
00:32:21,590 --> 00:32:19,679
and how where he was born where he was

872
00:32:23,590 --> 00:32:21,600
brought up and he was brought up just

873
00:32:26,789 --> 00:32:23,600
outside of manchester

874
00:32:28,789 --> 00:32:26,799
uh which is less than 40 miles from here

875
00:32:31,110 --> 00:32:28,799
and the right smack bang in the middle

876
00:32:33,430 --> 00:32:31,120
of this memoir is the biggest chapter in

877
00:32:35,430 --> 00:32:33,440
it and it is called

878
00:32:38,950 --> 00:32:35,440
the encounter

879
00:32:41,830 --> 00:32:38,960
and it goes back to 1911.

880
00:32:44,149 --> 00:32:41,840
so this gentleman and his and his friend

881
00:32:45,830 --> 00:32:44,159
he was nine years old at the time were

882
00:32:47,669 --> 00:32:45,840
on their way to a park one morning a

883
00:32:49,269 --> 00:32:47,679
local park

884
00:32:50,870 --> 00:32:49,279
this these were days when you still let

885
00:32:51,990 --> 00:32:50,880
your children out on their own martin

886
00:32:53,509 --> 00:32:52,000
you know

887
00:32:55,029 --> 00:32:53,519
not like today

888
00:32:57,590 --> 00:32:55,039
and off they went

889
00:33:00,070 --> 00:32:57,600
and he said we come across this clearing

890
00:33:02,149 --> 00:33:00,080
and he said there is this thing

891
00:33:04,389 --> 00:33:02,159
on the ground

892
00:33:05,909 --> 00:33:04,399
it's like a cigar shaped thing

893
00:33:08,630 --> 00:33:05,919
and they approached it and the door

894
00:33:10,870 --> 00:33:08,640
opened and these humanoids appeared

895
00:33:15,190 --> 00:33:10,880
and he said he described them as almost

896
00:33:16,549 --> 00:33:15,200
um oriental or asian southeast asian

897
00:33:17,990 --> 00:33:16,559
because of the clothing they were

898
00:33:18,950 --> 00:33:18,000
wearing and they even

899
00:33:22,870 --> 00:33:18,960
had a

900
00:33:25,269 --> 00:33:22,880
went inside it was shown around they

901
00:33:26,310 --> 00:33:25,279
were conversed and see you later on you

902
00:33:28,710 --> 00:33:26,320
go

903
00:33:30,950 --> 00:33:28,720
and this is 1911

904
00:33:33,110 --> 00:33:30,960
wow and it appears in this little

905
00:33:36,549 --> 00:33:33,120
self-written memoir that this gentleman

906
00:33:40,230 --> 00:33:36,559
wrote for his family and his family only

907
00:33:42,710 --> 00:33:40,240
so the chances are he never told us so

908
00:33:45,029 --> 00:33:42,720
uh so it shows you what is lying around

909
00:33:46,230 --> 00:33:45,039
martin that's never been reported

910
00:33:48,070 --> 00:33:46,240
before

911
00:33:49,830 --> 00:33:48,080
and and that is one of them i wrote an

912
00:33:52,070 --> 00:33:49,840
article about it

913
00:33:54,710 --> 00:33:52,080
and i've i've some people saw all these

914
00:33:57,269 --> 00:33:54,720
old cases i'm sick of sick i find them

915
00:33:58,950 --> 00:33:57,279
fascinating personally you know

916
00:34:00,950 --> 00:33:58,960
um because there was there was no

917
00:34:03,990 --> 00:34:00,960
literature from which he could copy this

918
00:34:07,110 --> 00:34:04,000
there was no flying sources you know

919
00:34:09,750 --> 00:34:07,120
and why do it why why do it if it's only

920
00:34:11,589 --> 00:34:09,760
for your own your own family that you're

921
00:34:13,750 --> 00:34:11,599
leaving this for let's just give you an

922
00:34:15,030 --> 00:34:13,760
example that's a that's a great and

923
00:34:16,950 --> 00:34:15,040
we're going to be talking about that i

924
00:34:19,510 --> 00:34:16,960
want to show you this first because i

925
00:34:20,750 --> 00:34:19,520
found it really interesting this is uh

926
00:34:22,389 --> 00:34:20,760
in

927
00:34:25,109 --> 00:34:22,399
1796

928
00:34:28,790 --> 00:34:25,119
and it explains about it's hard to see

929
00:34:30,470 --> 00:34:28,800
here that um and this was i

930
00:34:34,470 --> 00:34:30,480
i can't remember where

931
00:34:37,909 --> 00:34:34,480
and i thought it was in off england on a

932
00:34:41,349 --> 00:34:37,919
ship the simon perkins diary uh october

933
00:34:44,389 --> 00:34:41,359
12 1796 you can google it and it talks

934
00:34:47,430 --> 00:34:44,399
about um a a ufo

935
00:34:49,750 --> 00:34:47,440
uh that is like a ship in the sky

936
00:34:51,430 --> 00:34:49,760
and those are all fascinating to me well

937
00:34:52,389 --> 00:34:51,440
let me read you one little instance from

938
00:34:54,710 --> 00:34:52,399
the book

939
00:34:57,430 --> 00:34:54,720
okay sure yeah please um it's in chapter

940
00:34:59,030 --> 00:34:57,440
one it's actually on page six

941
00:35:01,030 --> 00:34:59,040
and it's an extract from something

942
00:35:04,230 --> 00:35:01,040
called the british magazine

943
00:35:06,950 --> 00:35:04,240
published in 1767.

944
00:35:10,069 --> 00:35:06,960
wow it's on page 500

945
00:35:12,470 --> 00:35:10,079
and uh it's an extract of a letter

946
00:35:15,109 --> 00:35:12,480
from a chap in edinburgh so somebody's

947
00:35:17,190 --> 00:35:15,119
written to this magazine so excuse the

948
00:35:19,750 --> 00:35:17,200
lang the the terminology because this is

949
00:35:22,390 --> 00:35:19,760
the way they used to talk in those days

950
00:35:25,270 --> 00:35:22,400
it says we hear from persia

951
00:35:29,109 --> 00:35:25,280
that an uncommon phenomenon was observed

952
00:35:32,150 --> 00:35:29,119
on the water of isla near cooper angus

953
00:35:34,069 --> 00:35:32,160
preceded by a thick dark smoke which

954
00:35:37,430 --> 00:35:34,079
soon dispelled

955
00:35:39,589 --> 00:35:37,440
and discovered a large luminous body

956
00:35:42,870 --> 00:35:39,599
like a house on fire

957
00:35:45,990 --> 00:35:42,880
but presently after took the thaw the

958
00:35:48,870 --> 00:35:46,000
form of something pyramidal

959
00:35:50,310 --> 00:35:48,880
and wrote forwards with impetuous i

960
00:35:51,910 --> 00:35:50,320
can't pronounce that next word but it

961
00:35:54,470 --> 00:35:51,920
moved forward

962
00:35:57,190 --> 00:35:54,480
uh at this pyramidal object and this is

963
00:36:00,950 --> 00:35:57,200
1767.

964
00:36:05,030 --> 00:36:00,960
wow i mean i love these stories yeah so

965
00:36:07,510 --> 00:36:05,040
for for me you know the these stories uh

966
00:36:09,430 --> 00:36:07,520
are fascinating and people will class

967
00:36:13,349 --> 00:36:09,440
them as folklore and history and legend

968
00:36:14,630 --> 00:36:13,359
and rightfully so but what it does show

969
00:36:16,630 --> 00:36:14,640
is that

970
00:36:19,349 --> 00:36:16,640
despite what we might think today these

971
00:36:21,349 --> 00:36:19,359
kind of encounters are not a modern day

972
00:36:23,190 --> 00:36:21,359
phenomena

973
00:36:25,510 --> 00:36:23,200
in all likelihood

974
00:36:26,710 --> 00:36:25,520
martin in 200 years from now people

975
00:36:29,109 --> 00:36:26,720
might pick up

976
00:36:31,750 --> 00:36:29,119
copies of of the ufo literature that's

977
00:36:34,630 --> 00:36:31,760
been published today and class it

978
00:36:36,150 --> 00:36:34,640
as folklore you know we might never

979
00:36:38,390 --> 00:36:36,160
thought of that but yeah you're probably

980
00:36:40,550 --> 00:36:38,400
right yeah

981
00:36:43,349 --> 00:36:40,560
but and i'll give you another little

982
00:36:45,670 --> 00:36:43,359
thing about finding things

983
00:36:46,630 --> 00:36:45,680
a few years back i was contact contacted

984
00:36:49,990 --> 00:36:46,640
by

985
00:36:52,230 --> 00:36:50,000
a film company in in the usa they made

986
00:36:54,470 --> 00:36:52,240
tv movies

987
00:36:56,950 --> 00:36:54,480
one of their clients was a lady who was

988
00:36:58,150 --> 00:36:56,960
a private investigator and she passed

989
00:36:59,990 --> 00:36:58,160
away

990
00:37:02,310 --> 00:37:00,000
and her son had been going through her

991
00:37:04,710 --> 00:37:02,320
possessions and in her files

992
00:37:05,829 --> 00:37:04,720
there was one file

993
00:37:08,150 --> 00:37:05,839
marked

994
00:37:11,910 --> 00:37:08,160
roswell

995
00:37:14,069 --> 00:37:11,920
in this file was a vhs video tape

996
00:37:16,390 --> 00:37:14,079
and some paperwork

997
00:37:19,270 --> 00:37:16,400
so he played the videotape

998
00:37:20,630 --> 00:37:19,280
on that video is an informal

999
00:37:22,950 --> 00:37:20,640
interview

1000
00:37:24,950 --> 00:37:22,960
with the gentleman by the name of deputy

1001
00:37:27,510 --> 00:37:24,960
charles fargus

1002
00:37:28,390 --> 00:37:27,520
retired he's now he's now deceased

1003
00:37:30,950 --> 00:37:28,400
but

1004
00:37:33,670 --> 00:37:30,960
what the deputy went on to say and and

1005
00:37:35,109 --> 00:37:33,680
as the the camera pans around the room

1006
00:37:37,190 --> 00:37:35,119
you can see his

1007
00:37:39,270 --> 00:37:37,200
stripes from being in the military in

1008
00:37:40,950 --> 00:37:39,280
the 40s during the war

1009
00:37:43,109 --> 00:37:40,960
pictures of him as a young man in his

1010
00:37:44,950 --> 00:37:43,119
police uniform he didn't come from

1011
00:37:47,190 --> 00:37:44,960
roswell he come from a place called big

1012
00:37:50,230 --> 00:37:47,200
spring in texas

1013
00:37:52,310 --> 00:37:50,240
and he goes on to say he said in 1947

1014
00:37:54,230 --> 00:37:52,320
we've been looking for a guy

1015
00:37:56,710 --> 00:37:54,240
cashing false checks

1016
00:37:57,750 --> 00:37:56,720
and had been caught and put in the local

1017
00:37:59,349 --> 00:37:57,760
jail

1018
00:38:01,430 --> 00:37:59,359
in roswell

1019
00:38:04,470 --> 00:38:01,440
and me and my sheriff

1020
00:38:05,990 --> 00:38:04,480
went to pick this prisoner up and on

1021
00:38:08,470 --> 00:38:06,000
route

1022
00:38:10,230 --> 00:38:08,480
we heard about the incident on the

1023
00:38:12,790 --> 00:38:10,240
police radio

1024
00:38:14,870 --> 00:38:12,800
we managed to find the location i'm

1025
00:38:17,750 --> 00:38:14,880
cutting a long story short here we we

1026
00:38:19,990 --> 00:38:17,760
saw the recovery of the the object

1027
00:38:23,750 --> 00:38:20,000
this thing had crashed into the the wall

1028
00:38:25,109 --> 00:38:23,760
the cliff wall we saw the dead creatures

1029
00:38:27,430 --> 00:38:25,119
so we weren't allowed to view it for

1030
00:38:29,430 --> 00:38:27,440
long but long enough before we were

1031
00:38:30,390 --> 00:38:29,440
politely but firmly asked to leave the

1032
00:38:32,630 --> 00:38:30,400
area

1033
00:38:34,390 --> 00:38:32,640
and he said we went and picked up

1034
00:38:36,950 --> 00:38:34,400
our prisoner

1035
00:38:38,950 --> 00:38:36,960
and went back to to texas

1036
00:38:41,510 --> 00:38:38,960
and um he says that me and the sheriff

1037
00:38:42,630 --> 00:38:41,520
never really talked about it again

1038
00:38:44,870 --> 00:38:42,640
now

1039
00:38:46,550 --> 00:38:44,880
we published this article

1040
00:38:48,150 --> 00:38:46,560
published an article about the the late

1041
00:38:50,390 --> 00:38:48,160
deputy fergus

1042
00:38:52,150 --> 00:38:50,400
uh and eventually we ended up speaking

1043
00:38:54,390 --> 00:38:52,160
with his son

1044
00:38:58,390 --> 00:38:54,400
and he said my father was in the

1045
00:39:00,470 --> 00:38:58,400
the the the army i believe it was before

1046
00:39:02,390 --> 00:39:00,480
and i've got his military discharge

1047
00:39:04,069 --> 00:39:02,400
purpose for example he says he came

1048
00:39:06,230 --> 00:39:04,079
straight out of the military straight

1049
00:39:08,630 --> 00:39:06,240
into the police force and he says he

1050
00:39:11,589 --> 00:39:08,640
told us about this this this thing back

1051
00:39:13,190 --> 00:39:11,599
in the 1950s but of course in the in the

1052
00:39:15,109 --> 00:39:13,200
50s martin

1053
00:39:17,750 --> 00:39:15,119
roswell was dead and gone he had 15

1054
00:39:20,150 --> 00:39:17,760
million he had 15 minutes of fame wasn't

1055
00:39:23,270 --> 00:39:20,160
any books newspapers magazines so he

1056
00:39:24,870 --> 00:39:23,280
can't really anywhere not until 1980

1057
00:39:28,710 --> 00:39:24,880
exactly

1058
00:39:31,829 --> 00:39:28,720
so and that was lying around in a

1059
00:39:34,230 --> 00:39:31,839
form of private investigators files

1060
00:39:35,829 --> 00:39:34,240
isn't that amazing and so that kind of

1061
00:39:37,190 --> 00:39:35,839
it sort of backs up the theory that

1062
00:39:39,510 --> 00:39:37,200
there were two

1063
00:39:41,670 --> 00:39:39,520
uh there was the debris field

1064
00:39:42,470 --> 00:39:41,680
and then there was also another

1065
00:39:45,190 --> 00:39:42,480
like

1066
00:39:47,670 --> 00:39:45,200
some people have speculated the pod

1067
00:39:49,829 --> 00:39:47,680
that he released from the you know the

1068
00:39:51,670 --> 00:39:49,839
the craft i think stanton friedman

1069
00:39:54,150 --> 00:39:51,680
thought there were it was a collision of

1070
00:39:56,150 --> 00:39:54,160
two but uh you know i don't who knows

1071
00:39:59,190 --> 00:39:56,160
what but still that's another

1072
00:40:01,109 --> 00:39:59,200
confirmation about the bodies and that

1073
00:40:03,030 --> 00:40:01,119
people have talked about yeah and not

1074
00:40:03,829 --> 00:40:03,040
only that when when people talk about oh

1075
00:40:07,349 --> 00:40:03,839
it's

1076
00:40:10,470 --> 00:40:07,359
is another possible piece to the puzzle

1077
00:40:11,990 --> 00:40:10,480
i'm not saying this gentleman's is

1078
00:40:13,829 --> 00:40:12,000
telling the truth or he's lying all i'm

1079
00:40:15,349 --> 00:40:13,839
saying is here what we've uncovered

1080
00:40:17,589 --> 00:40:15,359
here's what this gentleman had to say

1081
00:40:19,750 --> 00:40:17,599
it's on the tape the paperwork that was

1082
00:40:21,430 --> 00:40:19,760
in the file was actually a transcript of

1083
00:40:23,430 --> 00:40:21,440
their conversation

1084
00:40:25,430 --> 00:40:23,440
and we published it and you

1085
00:40:27,190 --> 00:40:25,440
you know i add that information to the

1086
00:40:28,790 --> 00:40:27,200
research that's already been done you

1087
00:40:30,790 --> 00:40:28,800
can either accept it or dismiss it

1088
00:40:33,430 --> 00:40:30,800
that's entirely up to you but that's the

1089
00:40:35,030 --> 00:40:33,440
kind of so there's two examples

1090
00:40:36,790 --> 00:40:35,040
of things that were lying around that

1091
00:40:39,750 --> 00:40:36,800
nobody had a clue about we've got this

1092
00:40:41,829 --> 00:40:39,760
mining engineer from 1911 and we've and

1093
00:40:45,190 --> 00:40:41,839
we've got you know a former police

1094
00:40:48,630 --> 00:40:45,200
deputy deputy sheriff from big spring in

1095
00:40:52,390 --> 00:40:48,640
texas not big springs big spring

1096
00:40:54,470 --> 00:40:52,400
and and i i even i i contacted various

1097
00:40:56,630 --> 00:40:54,480
locations in big spring

1098
00:40:58,470 --> 00:40:56,640
and they sent me a little mail aftermath

1099
00:41:01,750 --> 00:40:58,480
and they sent me a photograph of the

1100
00:41:04,390 --> 00:41:01,760
sheriff's office from the late 1930s and

1101
00:41:06,069 --> 00:41:04,400
it just looked like look like john wayne

1102
00:41:08,069 --> 00:41:06,079
was going to be sat there with his feet

1103
00:41:10,150 --> 00:41:08,079
up you know in complete

1104
00:41:12,470 --> 00:41:10,160
cowboy outfit you know

1105
00:41:15,030 --> 00:41:12,480
it was that kind of place and i can't

1106
00:41:16,470 --> 00:41:15,040
imagine in 1947 it would have been much

1107
00:41:18,870 --> 00:41:16,480
different

1108
00:41:21,430 --> 00:41:18,880
yeah boy the coincidence of all that

1109
00:41:23,990 --> 00:41:21,440
coming together this person

1110
00:41:25,910 --> 00:41:24,000
uh enroute when this this whole thing

1111
00:41:26,950 --> 00:41:25,920
was heard on the police radio and all

1112
00:41:28,790 --> 00:41:26,960
that that's

1113
00:41:31,750 --> 00:41:28,800
that's fascinating and you know you're

1114
00:41:32,829 --> 00:41:31,760
making such a good point because

1115
00:41:35,910 --> 00:41:32,839
right after

1116
00:41:38,870 --> 00:41:35,920
1947 it was you know put away as a

1117
00:41:41,190 --> 00:41:38,880
weather balloon and not talked about and

1118
00:41:43,510 --> 00:41:41,200
that was back right after the war world

1119
00:41:44,870 --> 00:41:43,520
war ii where people listened to the

1120
00:41:46,630 --> 00:41:44,880
government no matter what they said

1121
00:41:48,390 --> 00:41:46,640
because they just got through that you

1122
00:41:50,470 --> 00:41:48,400
know horrendous war

1123
00:41:52,309 --> 00:41:50,480
and so okay the government says it's the

1124
00:41:53,990 --> 00:41:52,319
weather balloon that's what it is move

1125
00:41:56,309 --> 00:41:54,000
on and so

1126
00:42:00,230 --> 00:41:56,319
you know for this to to show up

1127
00:42:02,390 --> 00:42:00,240
like that is it's quite incredible

1128
00:42:04,069 --> 00:42:02,400
uh absolutely somebody but

1129
00:42:07,030 --> 00:42:04,079
when we were talking about are there

1130
00:42:09,510 --> 00:42:07,040
more more cases in this country compared

1131
00:42:11,589 --> 00:42:09,520
to that country all i'm saying is we

1132
00:42:13,190 --> 00:42:11,599
it's not a it's not a conclusion we can

1133
00:42:16,230 --> 00:42:13,200
reach because we don't know how many

1134
00:42:17,670 --> 00:42:16,240
things go unreported all we do know is

1135
00:42:19,750 --> 00:42:17,680
that there are a lot of things going

1136
00:42:22,390 --> 00:42:19,760
reported and these those were just two

1137
00:42:24,069 --> 00:42:22,400
examples of them i i could go on all day

1138
00:42:25,190 --> 00:42:24,079
and give you others you know

1139
00:42:30,069 --> 00:42:25,200
um

1140
00:42:32,069 --> 00:42:30,079
this country than perhaps our cousins in

1141
00:42:35,030 --> 00:42:32,079
the united states as well

1142
00:42:36,550 --> 00:42:35,040
and that plays a part of it you know as

1143
00:42:38,150 --> 00:42:36,560
as well martin

1144
00:42:39,990 --> 00:42:38,160
um

1145
00:42:42,069 --> 00:42:40,000
so there you go

1146
00:42:44,710 --> 00:42:42,079
yeah so let's talk about some of the

1147
00:42:47,270 --> 00:42:44,720
cases in your book of the uh landings i

1148
00:42:51,589 --> 00:42:47,280
i'm always fascinated by landings and

1149
00:42:54,470 --> 00:42:51,599
uh you know that there are some that are

1150
00:42:56,230 --> 00:42:54,480
really stand out um but i i'm not

1151
00:42:59,109 --> 00:42:56,240
familiar at all with any of them that i

1152
00:43:00,630 --> 00:42:59,119
can think of in the uk so well that's

1153
00:43:02,630 --> 00:43:00,640
that's one of the reasons for writing

1154
00:43:04,870 --> 00:43:02,640
the book martin i mean

1155
00:43:07,510 --> 00:43:04,880
um

1156
00:43:09,750 --> 00:43:07,520
some of the mainstream media not all but

1157
00:43:11,430 --> 00:43:09,760
some of it and certain debunkers would

1158
00:43:13,030 --> 00:43:11,440
have us believe that

1159
00:43:14,470 --> 00:43:13,040
these encounters only happen in the

1160
00:43:15,510 --> 00:43:14,480
united states

1161
00:43:18,069 --> 00:43:15,520
in the

1162
00:43:20,710 --> 00:43:18,079
desert of new mexico or whatever and we

1163
00:43:22,390 --> 00:43:20,720
know that's not the case now when i

1164
00:43:24,069 --> 00:43:22,400
first started

1165
00:43:26,710 --> 00:43:24,079
in 1980

1166
00:43:28,230 --> 00:43:26,720
and to try and become a a ufo research

1167
00:43:31,030 --> 00:43:28,240
and investigator

1168
00:43:32,630 --> 00:43:31,040
um i did some local media

1169
00:43:34,150 --> 00:43:32,640
and a lady rang us

1170
00:43:35,270 --> 00:43:34,160
and she said philip you won't believe me

1171
00:43:37,430 --> 00:43:35,280
you won't believe me you won't believe

1172
00:43:39,990 --> 00:43:37,440
me well give us a chance

1173
00:43:42,470 --> 00:43:40,000
you know anyway she lived just up the

1174
00:43:44,870 --> 00:43:42,480
road from us just a few miles in a small

1175
00:43:48,470 --> 00:43:44,880
mining town called normanton

1176
00:43:51,030 --> 00:43:48,480
so myself and my colleague mark bertsel

1177
00:43:53,990 --> 00:43:51,040
uh we went to speak to this lady

1178
00:43:55,829 --> 00:43:54,000
what she told us was

1179
00:43:58,150 --> 00:43:55,839
was a day um

1180
00:43:59,190 --> 00:43:58,160
a lovely sunny day and she had five

1181
00:44:01,109 --> 00:43:59,200
children

1182
00:44:02,870 --> 00:44:01,119
she lived in a cul-de-sac

1183
00:44:04,710 --> 00:44:02,880
and there was no houses opposite and she

1184
00:44:06,630 --> 00:44:04,720
lived in a terraced house

1185
00:44:09,030 --> 00:44:06,640
which was an elevated household there

1186
00:44:10,630 --> 00:44:09,040
was five or six steps to go up to get in

1187
00:44:12,150 --> 00:44:10,640
the front door

1188
00:44:13,510 --> 00:44:12,160
just after lunch

1189
00:44:14,630 --> 00:44:13,520
she was in the kitchen washing the

1190
00:44:16,069 --> 00:44:14,640
dishes

1191
00:44:18,550 --> 00:44:16,079
uh one of the children who've been

1192
00:44:20,470 --> 00:44:18,560
playing outside come running in

1193
00:44:21,430 --> 00:44:20,480
said mum mum

1194
00:44:24,630 --> 00:44:21,440
there's a

1195
00:44:26,069 --> 00:44:24,640
field

1196
00:44:27,829 --> 00:44:26,079
um because at the bottom of this

1197
00:44:29,670 --> 00:44:27,839
cul-de-sac with some trees and a little

1198
00:44:31,670 --> 00:44:29,680
stream and then a field with some

1199
00:44:34,069 --> 00:44:31,680
electricity pylons in

1200
00:44:35,910 --> 00:44:34,079
so she come out the front door and

1201
00:44:38,390 --> 00:44:35,920
because it's an elevated house you could

1202
00:44:40,230 --> 00:44:38,400
see across to this field

1203
00:44:43,190 --> 00:44:40,240
and she says phillip it it wasn't an

1204
00:44:44,950 --> 00:44:43,200
airplane it was shaped like a

1205
00:44:46,470 --> 00:44:44,960
like a mexican hat

1206
00:44:47,910 --> 00:44:46,480
she didn't call it a sombrero it's a

1207
00:44:50,630 --> 00:44:47,920
mexican hat

1208
00:44:52,630 --> 00:44:50,640
but like a silver gray color

1209
00:44:54,950 --> 00:44:52,640
so she got out of the children you walk

1210
00:44:56,630 --> 00:44:54,960
down through the cul-de-sac

1211
00:44:58,470 --> 00:44:56,640
through the trees and you lose sight of

1212
00:45:00,550 --> 00:44:58,480
this hill because there's a little dip

1213
00:45:02,950 --> 00:45:00,560
you come up the other side and the field

1214
00:45:05,270 --> 00:45:02,960
is bordered by a fence

1215
00:45:07,349 --> 00:45:05,280
this thing is still there on the ground

1216
00:45:09,910 --> 00:45:07,359
but now there are three

1217
00:45:12,150 --> 00:45:09,920
tall humanoid creatures beans whatever

1218
00:45:14,550 --> 00:45:12,160
you want to call them

1219
00:45:15,430 --> 00:45:14,560
all dressed in white we call them boiler

1220
00:45:18,870 --> 00:45:15,440
suits

1221
00:45:20,710 --> 00:45:18,880
you call them coveralls i believe um and

1222
00:45:21,990 --> 00:45:20,720
they were so close

1223
00:45:23,670 --> 00:45:22,000
they could see that these these

1224
00:45:25,349 --> 00:45:23,680
creatures didn't have

1225
00:45:27,430 --> 00:45:25,359
uh gloves on their hands they had

1226
00:45:29,750 --> 00:45:27,440
mittens

1227
00:45:31,510 --> 00:45:29,760
and they had a visor over their face and

1228
00:45:33,109 --> 00:45:31,520
they would seem to be waving something

1229
00:45:34,790 --> 00:45:33,119
over the ground

1230
00:45:36,630 --> 00:45:34,800
one of the children tried to climb the

1231
00:45:37,990 --> 00:45:36,640
fence but this lady was called mrs

1232
00:45:39,589 --> 00:45:38,000
westerman

1233
00:45:41,349 --> 00:45:39,599
held him back

1234
00:45:42,150 --> 00:45:41,359
these beings went to the back of this

1235
00:45:45,190 --> 00:45:42,160
thing

1236
00:45:47,510 --> 00:45:45,200
it rose silently stopped in mid-air and

1237
00:45:49,270 --> 00:45:47,520
was gone in a flash

1238
00:45:50,950 --> 00:45:49,280
so amazed

1239
00:45:53,349 --> 00:45:50,960
she thought this will be on the local

1240
00:45:55,829 --> 00:45:53,359
television news tonight

1241
00:45:58,230 --> 00:45:55,839
and she sat down to watch it nothing

1242
00:46:00,630 --> 00:45:58,240
yeah she bought the local newspaper that

1243
00:46:01,510 --> 00:46:00,640
week not a thing she even asked some of

1244
00:46:04,870 --> 00:46:01,520
her

1245
00:46:06,230 --> 00:46:04,880
anything because it was a beautiful

1246
00:46:08,150 --> 00:46:06,240
sunny day

1247
00:46:10,230 --> 00:46:08,160
and and the children were out playing

1248
00:46:12,390 --> 00:46:10,240
that's why and but no

1249
00:46:14,870 --> 00:46:12,400
and she had no idea she didn't call it a

1250
00:46:16,069 --> 00:46:14,880
flying saucer or anything just this

1251
00:46:17,990 --> 00:46:16,079
thing

1252
00:46:19,430 --> 00:46:18,000
and um

1253
00:46:21,030 --> 00:46:19,440
we even interviewed one of the

1254
00:46:22,790 --> 00:46:21,040
children's friends

1255
00:46:25,109 --> 00:46:22,800
he hadn't seen anything because he'd

1256
00:46:26,150 --> 00:46:25,119
gone home for his lunch and he'd come

1257
00:46:28,230 --> 00:46:26,160
back

1258
00:46:29,670 --> 00:46:28,240
a while later and you know all the

1259
00:46:31,589 --> 00:46:29,680
excitement was over they were all

1260
00:46:33,349 --> 00:46:31,599
talking about it

1261
00:46:35,670 --> 00:46:33,359
uh and

1262
00:46:37,349 --> 00:46:35,680
mrs westerman you know her husband

1263
00:46:39,670 --> 00:46:37,359
worked in the mining industry just like

1264
00:46:41,910 --> 00:46:39,680
my father did the children were playing

1265
00:46:44,150 --> 00:46:41,920
a ball game like i used to play in the

1266
00:46:46,230 --> 00:46:44,160
street when i was their age

1267
00:46:48,230 --> 00:46:46,240
she wouldn't let us take a photograph

1268
00:46:50,150 --> 00:46:48,240
couldn't use her name we didn't want any

1269
00:46:51,990 --> 00:46:50,160
publicity

1270
00:46:53,910 --> 00:46:52,000
we did all the usual checks we couldn't

1271
00:46:55,589 --> 00:46:53,920
find any rational explanation for it

1272
00:46:58,230 --> 00:46:55,599
much and so you had to say

1273
00:47:00,550 --> 00:46:58,240
this lady and the children are lying for

1274
00:47:02,230 --> 00:47:00,560
some reason or they're telling the truth

1275
00:47:03,349 --> 00:47:02,240
and i couldn't find any reason why they

1276
00:47:05,030 --> 00:47:03,359
were lying

1277
00:47:07,430 --> 00:47:05,040
what is interesting

1278
00:47:09,829 --> 00:47:07,440
um just before

1279
00:47:11,670 --> 00:47:09,839
the colby

1280
00:47:14,069 --> 00:47:11,680
i did a podcast for someone i mentioned

1281
00:47:15,910 --> 00:47:14,079
this incident but i forgot to mention

1282
00:47:19,030 --> 00:47:15,920
the lady's name

1283
00:47:19,990 --> 00:47:19,040
and um a lady from new zealand emailed

1284
00:47:21,190 --> 00:47:20,000
me

1285
00:47:22,870 --> 00:47:21,200
she said i'll listen to you on the

1286
00:47:25,190 --> 00:47:22,880
podcast phil if i used to live in

1287
00:47:26,710 --> 00:47:25,200
normanton i've actually immigrated to

1288
00:47:29,190 --> 00:47:26,720
new zealand

1289
00:47:31,430 --> 00:47:29,200
what was the family's name

1290
00:47:34,390 --> 00:47:31,440
so i said it was westerman

1291
00:47:36,790 --> 00:47:34,400
and she said my best friend was called

1292
00:47:39,829 --> 00:47:36,800
westerman and she still lives there i

1293
00:47:41,829 --> 00:47:39,839
i'll i'll contact her and she did and

1294
00:47:44,150 --> 00:47:41,839
that her best friend was one of those

1295
00:47:46,150 --> 00:47:44,160
children from all those years back

1296
00:47:49,190 --> 00:47:46,160
and she she changed the name now because

1297
00:47:51,589 --> 00:47:49,200
she got married she got her own family

1298
00:47:53,910 --> 00:47:51,599
and we corresponded and she

1299
00:47:55,030 --> 00:47:53,920
said yep we saw this this this this and

1300
00:47:57,829 --> 00:47:55,040
this

1301
00:47:59,670 --> 00:47:57,839
and uh that confirmed it again for me

1302
00:48:02,470 --> 00:47:59,680
you know and that was the first landing

1303
00:48:05,270 --> 00:48:02,480
case in in the uk i ever looked into

1304
00:48:07,109 --> 00:48:05,280
martin bear in mind pretty much nearly

1305
00:48:09,030 --> 00:48:07,119
all but not quite all but nearly all the

1306
00:48:11,109 --> 00:48:09,040
books i'd read at that point were all

1307
00:48:13,349 --> 00:48:11,119
american based

1308
00:48:15,910 --> 00:48:13,359
and here is something that happened

1309
00:48:18,390 --> 00:48:15,920
literally in my backyard i i still only

1310
00:48:20,150 --> 00:48:18,400
live a few miles from norman to now you

1311
00:48:21,589 --> 00:48:20,160
know i only live about 10 miles from

1312
00:48:23,750 --> 00:48:21,599
where i was born

1313
00:48:26,230 --> 00:48:23,760
and

1314
00:48:28,230 --> 00:48:26,240
it just fascinated me mrs westerman was

1315
00:48:30,069 --> 00:48:28,240
just puzzled

1316
00:48:31,270 --> 00:48:30,079
by the fact that no one else seems to

1317
00:48:32,470 --> 00:48:31,280
have seen it

1318
00:48:34,309 --> 00:48:32,480
i mean

1319
00:48:37,349 --> 00:48:34,319
the major motorway in this part of the

1320
00:48:40,069 --> 00:48:37,359
world is called the m62 martin it goes

1321
00:48:42,230 --> 00:48:40,079
from hull on the east coast and

1322
00:48:43,829 --> 00:48:42,240
liverpool on the west coast and it goes

1323
00:48:47,430 --> 00:48:43,839
right past normandy and he gets

1324
00:48:49,349 --> 00:48:47,440
thousands of enough cars an hour go past

1325
00:48:52,470 --> 00:48:49,359
nobody seems to have seen anything and i

1326
00:48:54,870 --> 00:48:52,480
always puzzled her it really did

1327
00:48:57,510 --> 00:48:54,880
but well funny i i have a friend that's

1328
00:48:59,670 --> 00:48:57,520
also i'm a fine art antique appraiser

1329
00:49:00,870 --> 00:48:59,680
and i have a friend that's also one and

1330
00:49:02,950 --> 00:49:00,880
he lives in

1331
00:49:05,750 --> 00:49:02,960
uh montreal

1332
00:49:06,630 --> 00:49:05,760
and uh we had a conversation one day as

1333
00:49:08,150 --> 00:49:06,640
friends

1334
00:49:09,589 --> 00:49:08,160
and i said well you know you might think

1335
00:49:12,630 --> 00:49:09,599
this is kind of weird but i do a show on

1336
00:49:15,349 --> 00:49:12,640
ufos too bad i have to say that but uh

1337
00:49:17,190 --> 00:49:15,359
but anyway he he said well i said let me

1338
00:49:19,349 --> 00:49:17,200
tell you what happened to me you know i

1339
00:49:21,190 --> 00:49:19,359
love hearing those type of stories but

1340
00:49:23,750 --> 00:49:21,200
he kind of said the same thing when he

1341
00:49:26,230 --> 00:49:23,760
was out he had a a party out on his deck

1342
00:49:27,109 --> 00:49:26,240
a barbecue with a of like 20 or 30

1343
00:49:29,109 --> 00:49:27,119
people

1344
00:49:30,549 --> 00:49:29,119
um all there and they're watching this

1345
00:49:33,270 --> 00:49:30,559
fighter jet

1346
00:49:34,710 --> 00:49:33,280
chasing a disc and it's like it goes one

1347
00:49:35,829 --> 00:49:34,720
way and across the sky and then the

1348
00:49:36,870 --> 00:49:35,839
other way and all of a sudden it just

1349
00:49:39,589 --> 00:49:36,880
takes off

1350
00:49:41,750 --> 00:49:39,599
and he says that's gotta be in that's

1351
00:49:43,349 --> 00:49:41,760
gotta be on the news i mean

1352
00:49:44,630 --> 00:49:43,359
it was uh it was some type of

1353
00:49:48,630 --> 00:49:44,640
celebration

1354
00:49:52,870 --> 00:49:48,640
there was a lot of people outside

1355
00:49:55,670 --> 00:49:52,880
um during that holiday in the summer

1356
00:49:58,230 --> 00:49:55,680
but anyway he said that he just was

1357
00:50:00,549 --> 00:49:58,240
totally shocked that it wasn't in the

1358
00:50:02,470 --> 00:50:00,559
newspaper it wasn't on the news

1359
00:50:05,270 --> 00:50:02,480
so i get that and when you see something

1360
00:50:07,510 --> 00:50:05,280
profound like that you just assume

1361
00:50:09,829 --> 00:50:07,520
that other people have to see it yeah i

1362
00:50:11,430 --> 00:50:09,839
think being a car crash or a major crime

1363
00:50:12,470 --> 00:50:11,440
or whatever it would have been on the

1364
00:50:15,349 --> 00:50:12,480
news but

1365
00:50:17,589 --> 00:50:15,359
yeah she was amazed it was almost you

1366
00:50:19,910 --> 00:50:17,599
had to be there at that location at that

1367
00:50:22,309 --> 00:50:19,920
time to have witnessed this thing i mean

1368
00:50:23,910 --> 00:50:22,319
that's just pure speculation i'm not

1369
00:50:24,950 --> 00:50:23,920
saying that as a fact

1370
00:50:27,270 --> 00:50:24,960
um

1371
00:50:29,190 --> 00:50:27,280
but i don't know we've run the story in

1372
00:50:31,030 --> 00:50:29,200
the local media a couple of times down

1373
00:50:32,230 --> 00:50:31,040
the years to see if it would draw anyone

1374
00:50:35,109 --> 00:50:32,240
else forward

1375
00:50:36,549 --> 00:50:35,119
not a thing i mean not anything

1376
00:50:38,470 --> 00:50:36,559
and um

1377
00:50:40,549 --> 00:50:38,480
so but that what it did i hadn't been

1378
00:50:41,670 --> 00:50:40,559
involved that long martin

1379
00:50:43,510 --> 00:50:41,680
um

1380
00:50:45,829 --> 00:50:43,520
and it confirmed to me that i wasn't

1381
00:50:48,710 --> 00:50:45,839
wasting my time you know it was worth

1382
00:50:50,470 --> 00:50:48,720
yeah it was worth me investing my time

1383
00:50:52,230 --> 00:50:50,480
and effort and money

1384
00:50:54,069 --> 00:50:52,240
researching this subject i still thought

1385
00:50:56,470 --> 00:50:54,079
i'd find all the answers in no diamond

1386
00:50:58,309 --> 00:50:56,480
doll i know

1387
00:50:59,829 --> 00:50:58,319
yeah but but but it

1388
00:51:02,309 --> 00:50:59,839
what it did also

1389
00:51:05,510 --> 00:51:02,319
uh inside me kept this interesting in

1390
00:51:07,589 --> 00:51:05,520
ufo landing cases uh and as dr heineck

1391
00:51:09,349 --> 00:51:07,599
called them high strangeness

1392
00:51:11,990 --> 00:51:09,359
when you when you're up close and you're

1393
00:51:14,390 --> 00:51:12,000
pers and personal it's

1394
00:51:16,470 --> 00:51:14,400
extremely difficult to say

1395
00:51:18,069 --> 00:51:16,480
that they have misidentified a

1396
00:51:19,430 --> 00:51:18,079
conventional object when you're not

1397
00:51:21,430 --> 00:51:19,440
literally only yard for it i'm not

1398
00:51:23,109 --> 00:51:21,440
saying it's impossible because as soon

1399
00:51:24,710 --> 00:51:23,119
as i say if i said it was impossible

1400
00:51:27,829 --> 00:51:24,720
somebody would give me an example of why

1401
00:51:29,190 --> 00:51:27,839
it's no so yes it's it's extremely

1402
00:51:31,589 --> 00:51:29,200
unlikely

1403
00:51:34,870 --> 00:51:31,599
i mean this thing didn't make a noise

1404
00:51:36,630 --> 00:51:34,880
um it was a dangerous operation for a

1405
00:51:38,549 --> 00:51:36,640
helicopter because there was electricity

1406
00:51:39,910 --> 00:51:38,559
pylons there one why the hell would a

1407
00:51:41,750 --> 00:51:39,920
helicopter land there anyway there's

1408
00:51:44,630 --> 00:51:41,760
nothing there it's just an empty field

1409
00:51:46,710 --> 00:51:44,640
nothing in it but grass you know um did

1410
00:51:48,790 --> 00:51:46,720
you ask them did you happen to ask

1411
00:51:50,390 --> 00:51:48,800
pardon me did you happen to ask them if

1412
00:51:52,069 --> 00:51:50,400
they look to see

1413
00:51:53,829 --> 00:51:52,079
the landing if there was anything at the

1414
00:51:56,470 --> 00:51:53,839
landing area there was no marks on the

1415
00:51:58,870 --> 00:51:56,480
ground at all no whatsoever and this was

1416
00:52:01,430 --> 00:51:58,880
a time when crop circles were in the

1417
00:52:03,109 --> 00:52:01,440
news yeah so it would have been easy for

1418
00:52:05,910 --> 00:52:03,119
them to say oh it looked like one of

1419
00:52:08,390 --> 00:52:05,920
them circle thingies you know but but no

1420
00:52:09,750 --> 00:52:08,400
no no no not a blade of grass seems to

1421
00:52:11,589 --> 00:52:09,760
have been dented

1422
00:52:13,670 --> 00:52:11,599
but it was only short grass and it was

1423
00:52:16,470 --> 00:52:13,680
hard anyway so

1424
00:52:17,829 --> 00:52:16,480
it could be a reason for that um being

1425
00:52:19,030 --> 00:52:17,839
in the summer that you know the ground

1426
00:52:19,910 --> 00:52:19,040
was dry

1427
00:52:21,270 --> 00:52:19,920
um

1428
00:52:24,309 --> 00:52:21,280
but no

1429
00:52:26,549 --> 00:52:24,319
naughty thing you know uh i'm

1430
00:52:28,870 --> 00:52:26,559
mark mark bertzler was with me on this

1431
00:52:30,870 --> 00:52:28,880
mark was quite a good artist and while

1432
00:52:32,710 --> 00:52:30,880
we're speaking to mrs westerman and the

1433
00:52:34,470 --> 00:52:32,720
children he's scribbling away i'm

1434
00:52:36,069 --> 00:52:34,480
thinking he's taking notes

1435
00:52:37,910 --> 00:52:36,079
but he's not he's actually doing an

1436
00:52:39,910 --> 00:52:37,920
artist impression as we speak and he

1437
00:52:41,750 --> 00:52:39,920
said wow did he look anything like that

1438
00:52:42,870 --> 00:52:41,760
and she says oh yeah

1439
00:52:44,309 --> 00:52:42,880
yeah

1440
00:52:47,349 --> 00:52:44,319
you know

1441
00:52:49,430 --> 00:52:47,359
and uh make of it what you will and that

1442
00:52:50,790 --> 00:52:49,440
that was kind of a catalyst if you like

1443
00:52:52,790 --> 00:52:50,800
although i never thought of a book at

1444
00:52:55,270 --> 00:52:52,800
the time but

1445
00:52:58,470 --> 00:52:55,280
it was that case that has eventually led

1446
00:53:01,109 --> 00:52:58,480
to my new book ufo landings uk all those

1447
00:53:03,349 --> 00:53:01,119
years ago because i would collect

1448
00:53:05,190 --> 00:53:03,359
encounters as i went along

1449
00:53:08,069 --> 00:53:05,200
uh from other colleagues from other

1450
00:53:10,870 --> 00:53:08,079
publications or i would go and interview

1451
00:53:13,510 --> 00:53:10,880
people you know face to face and i'll

1452
00:53:15,190 --> 00:53:13,520
give you an example another little case

1453
00:53:17,030 --> 00:53:15,200
not that startling it won't make the

1454
00:53:19,990 --> 00:53:17,040
headlines but this happened

1455
00:53:21,549 --> 00:53:20,000
uh in the middle of the second world war

1456
00:53:24,309 --> 00:53:21,559
it was may

1457
00:53:25,990 --> 00:53:24,319
1943 and involved a gentleman by the

1458
00:53:28,870 --> 00:53:26,000
name of john warren

1459
00:53:31,030 --> 00:53:28,880
and he was based at raf loddam which was

1460
00:53:34,309 --> 00:53:31,040
in norwich in norfolk

1461
00:53:36,069 --> 00:53:34,319
um he was an armorer so the the aircraft

1462
00:53:38,790 --> 00:53:36,079
that they had on base there he would fit

1463
00:53:41,270 --> 00:53:38,800
them with their various um you know

1464
00:53:43,750 --> 00:53:41,280
bombs and bullets and so on

1465
00:53:46,549 --> 00:53:43,760
and he got a night off

1466
00:53:48,790 --> 00:53:46,559
so he went to a local dance

1467
00:53:50,950 --> 00:53:48,800
and he said you know

1468
00:53:52,230 --> 00:53:50,960
unfortunately i missed the last train

1469
00:53:53,349 --> 00:53:52,240
back

1470
00:53:55,829 --> 00:53:53,359
um

1471
00:53:57,990 --> 00:53:55,839
and he said it was a 12 mile walk back

1472
00:53:59,510 --> 00:53:58,000
to base and he said it wasn't the 12

1473
00:54:01,510 --> 00:53:59,520
miles that bothered me it's the fact in

1474
00:54:03,589 --> 00:54:01,520
those days if you were late coming back

1475
00:54:05,510 --> 00:54:03,599
you could be in big trouble

1476
00:54:07,750 --> 00:54:05,520
and the chances of you getting another

1477
00:54:10,470 --> 00:54:07,760
pass to go out

1478
00:54:12,150 --> 00:54:10,480
you know so he sets off he walks the 12

1479
00:54:14,950 --> 00:54:12,160
miles back

1480
00:54:16,470 --> 00:54:14,960
as he's approaching the base literally

1481
00:54:19,670 --> 00:54:16,480
on the road up to it

1482
00:54:21,270 --> 00:54:19,680
he sees this green glow up ahead

1483
00:54:23,030 --> 00:54:21,280
and he knows he knows there's nothing

1484
00:54:25,270 --> 00:54:23,040
there it shouldn't be there as he gets

1485
00:54:28,309 --> 00:54:25,280
closer there is a

1486
00:54:30,549 --> 00:54:28,319
a humanoid being stood

1487
00:54:32,549 --> 00:54:30,559
at the side of the road

1488
00:54:33,990 --> 00:54:32,559
and it's got a it's got a box on its

1489
00:54:36,150 --> 00:54:34,000
chest

1490
00:54:40,230 --> 00:54:36,160
and coming out of the top of this box is

1491
00:54:42,069 --> 00:54:40,240
this green glow shining up into its face

1492
00:54:43,829 --> 00:54:42,079
and it looks like it's got a big smirk

1493
00:54:45,670 --> 00:54:43,839
on its face but

1494
00:54:47,750 --> 00:54:45,680
i don't know if you did it as a as a as

1495
00:54:50,950 --> 00:54:47,760
a youngster martin you put a flashlight

1496
00:54:56,069 --> 00:54:53,349
yeah and

1497
00:54:58,150 --> 00:54:56,079
behind this thing was a grass verge

1498
00:54:59,990 --> 00:54:58,160
there was an object on the ground

1499
00:55:02,069 --> 00:55:00,000
that was illuminated mr one said it

1500
00:55:04,309 --> 00:55:02,079
looked like a bell tent

1501
00:55:06,470 --> 00:55:04,319
to the other side again further back

1502
00:55:08,630 --> 00:55:06,480
there were two more of these entities

1503
00:55:11,190 --> 00:55:08,640
it scared the living daylights out of

1504
00:55:13,670 --> 00:55:11,200
him he ran back to the base

1505
00:55:15,270 --> 00:55:13,680
fortunately for him a friend had been

1506
00:55:17,430 --> 00:55:15,280
waiting up and let him in through a

1507
00:55:19,030 --> 00:55:17,440
window so he didn't get into trouble and

1508
00:55:20,630 --> 00:55:19,040
he told his friend

1509
00:55:22,630 --> 00:55:20,640
and he said

1510
00:55:24,710 --> 00:55:22,640
it's not in the book because he he asked

1511
00:55:27,270 --> 00:55:24,720
me not to publish it then so

1512
00:55:28,789 --> 00:55:27,280
i've kept that but i can tell the story

1513
00:55:30,309 --> 00:55:28,799
he said phillip

1514
00:55:32,390 --> 00:55:30,319
had it been armed

1515
00:55:33,829 --> 00:55:32,400
i would have shot it

1516
00:55:37,109 --> 00:55:33,839
i would have literally shot it because

1517
00:55:38,789 --> 00:55:37,119
it wasn't one of us this is 1943

1518
00:55:41,270 --> 00:55:38,799
middle of the second world war outside

1519
00:55:43,270 --> 00:55:41,280
and royal air force base yeah i said but

1520
00:55:47,270 --> 00:55:43,280
you don't you don't take a sidearm to a

1521
00:55:51,910 --> 00:55:49,750
and um he reported it initially i think

1522
00:55:54,630 --> 00:55:51,920
he was in the 60s or the 70s

1523
00:55:56,870 --> 00:55:54,640
and then he saw me in a local newspaper

1524
00:55:59,990 --> 00:55:56,880
in the 80s and contacted me and i i went

1525
00:56:00,829 --> 00:56:00,000
and sat in in front of mr warren in his

1526
00:56:03,750 --> 00:56:00,839
home

1527
00:56:05,589 --> 00:56:03,760
um there were no books on ufos or

1528
00:56:07,349 --> 00:56:05,599
magazines he wasn't interested in the

1529
00:56:08,710 --> 00:56:07,359
subject at all

1530
00:56:10,069 --> 00:56:08,720
and um

1531
00:56:12,309 --> 00:56:10,079
you know there's a little sketch in

1532
00:56:14,390 --> 00:56:12,319
there of what he drew

1533
00:56:17,030 --> 00:56:14,400
and and a picture of him as well i

1534
00:56:19,349 --> 00:56:17,040
believe and it's just a another little

1535
00:56:20,870 --> 00:56:19,359
fascinating case that

1536
00:56:23,670 --> 00:56:20,880
you know you wouldn't probably find

1537
00:56:26,470 --> 00:56:23,680
anywhere else martin right i love the

1538
00:56:28,470 --> 00:56:26,480
fact that you actually talk directly

1539
00:56:30,390 --> 00:56:28,480
you know a lot of a lot of times when

1540
00:56:33,430 --> 00:56:30,400
people are writing books

1541
00:56:35,750 --> 00:56:33,440
it's all you know through research only

1542
00:56:37,750 --> 00:56:35,760
and not through you know speaking

1543
00:56:39,109 --> 00:56:37,760
directly with people so

1544
00:56:41,510 --> 00:56:39,119
you have uh

1545
00:56:42,789 --> 00:56:41,520
is that the case with a number of these

1546
00:56:45,589 --> 00:56:42,799
that you've written about

1547
00:56:47,430 --> 00:56:45,599
i mean initially when i first began you

1548
00:56:49,030 --> 00:56:47,440
know that was the way you did it you

1549
00:56:51,589 --> 00:56:49,040
would write to them or you would phone

1550
00:56:53,109 --> 00:56:51,599
them to make the initial contact

1551
00:56:54,789 --> 00:56:53,119
uh and then

1552
00:56:55,670 --> 00:56:54,799
you get in the car i used to have a kit

1553
00:56:59,910 --> 00:56:55,680
bag

1554
00:57:01,750 --> 00:56:59,920
lenses batteries

1555
00:57:04,710 --> 00:57:01,760
you know extra film

1556
00:57:06,230 --> 00:57:04,720
uh a little tape recorder a notebook and

1557
00:57:08,630 --> 00:57:06,240
a couple of pens

1558
00:57:10,950 --> 00:57:08,640
and my wife you used to say what time

1559
00:57:12,789 --> 00:57:10,960
will you be oh my i have no idea what

1560
00:57:15,430 --> 00:57:12,799
time i'm gonna get there there was no

1561
00:57:17,430 --> 00:57:15,440
sat nav you know you had a map and you

1562
00:57:20,069 --> 00:57:17,440
figured out your own little way

1563
00:57:22,390 --> 00:57:20,079
and um wow you know i interviewed like i

1564
00:57:24,549 --> 00:57:22,400
said mr one unfortunately when

1565
00:57:25,510 --> 00:57:24,559
mrs westerman were local

1566
00:57:27,750 --> 00:57:25,520
so

1567
00:57:29,670 --> 00:57:27,760
it just made sense that you know only

1568
00:57:33,030 --> 00:57:29,680
live two minutes away go and speak to

1569
00:57:35,430 --> 00:57:33,040
them but another incident in the book um

1570
00:57:37,109 --> 00:57:35,440
probably the the best well-known one

1571
00:57:38,549 --> 00:57:37,119
uh involved a gentleman called robert

1572
00:57:40,549 --> 00:57:38,559
taylor

1573
00:57:43,270 --> 00:57:40,559
in scotland as you know the uk is made

1574
00:57:44,230 --> 00:57:43,280
up of england island scotland and wales

1575
00:57:47,430 --> 00:57:44,240
and

1576
00:57:49,109 --> 00:57:47,440
in november 1970 79 he lived in a little

1577
00:57:51,829 --> 00:57:49,119
place called livingston

1578
00:57:53,589 --> 00:57:51,839
which is about halfway between

1579
00:57:57,109 --> 00:57:53,599
glasgow and edinburgh

1580
00:57:58,150 --> 00:57:57,119
smallish town he was a forestry worker

1581
00:58:00,230 --> 00:57:58,160
so he

1582
00:58:02,470 --> 00:58:00,240
says goodbye to his wife gets in his

1583
00:58:03,990 --> 00:58:02,480
truck with his dog and he's going to a

1584
00:58:05,910 --> 00:58:04,000
little place just on the edge of town

1585
00:58:07,510 --> 00:58:05,920
called deckmont woods

1586
00:58:09,910 --> 00:58:07,520
parks the truck

1587
00:58:12,950 --> 00:58:09,920
walks down a dirt track it's it's a cold

1588
00:58:15,349 --> 00:58:12,960
november day in scotland

1589
00:58:17,750 --> 00:58:15,359
and there's a clearing in the woods

1590
00:58:20,789 --> 00:58:17,760
and there in this clearing is this

1591
00:58:23,190 --> 00:58:20,799
dome-shaped object on the ground

1592
00:58:25,829 --> 00:58:23,200
uh he had a skirt around the bottom of

1593
00:58:27,670 --> 00:58:25,839
it mr taylor actually called it a flange

1594
00:58:29,990 --> 00:58:27,680
there's a skirt going around it with

1595
00:58:31,430 --> 00:58:30,000
these little things sticking up reminded

1596
00:58:33,750 --> 00:58:31,440
me of the old-fashioned you know

1597
00:58:36,630 --> 00:58:33,760
airplane propellers

1598
00:58:37,990 --> 00:58:36,640
and he stood there you know transfixed

1599
00:58:39,829 --> 00:58:38,000
and then

1600
00:58:41,829 --> 00:58:39,839
from either behind it or underneath it

1601
00:58:43,910 --> 00:58:41,839
came these balls

1602
00:58:47,030 --> 00:58:43,920
that had spikes on

1603
00:58:48,390 --> 00:58:47,040
it reminded him of the second world war

1604
00:58:50,309 --> 00:58:48,400
sea mines

1605
00:58:52,390 --> 00:58:50,319
but not as big as nose

1606
00:58:55,030 --> 00:58:52,400
and because it was damp

1607
00:58:57,190 --> 00:58:55,040
he could hear these things plopping

1608
00:58:58,870 --> 00:58:57,200
across the ground as they rolled across

1609
00:59:01,349 --> 00:58:58,880
the ground towards him

1610
00:59:04,150 --> 00:59:01,359
they came up the side of him

1611
00:59:06,069 --> 00:59:04,160
he felt a tug in on his trousers and he

1612
00:59:08,309 --> 00:59:06,079
passed out

1613
00:59:10,150 --> 00:59:08,319
when he came around he had this

1614
00:59:12,870 --> 00:59:10,160
high-pitched whistling noise

1615
00:59:15,990 --> 00:59:12,880
there was a strong smell of sulfur

1616
00:59:18,950 --> 00:59:16,000
his dog was doing cartwheels

1617
00:59:20,870 --> 00:59:18,960
and this thing had gone so he

1618
00:59:21,829 --> 00:59:20,880
he staggered literally staggered to his

1619
00:59:24,309 --> 00:59:21,839
feet

1620
00:59:25,829 --> 00:59:24,319
up to his truck tried to drive it

1621
00:59:27,030 --> 00:59:25,839
couldn't yeah i think he ended up in a

1622
00:59:30,069 --> 00:59:27,040
ditch

1623
00:59:32,789 --> 00:59:30,079
so he walked back down home

1624
00:59:33,990 --> 00:59:32,799
his wife's still at home he's covered in

1625
00:59:35,510 --> 00:59:34,000
mud

1626
00:59:38,470 --> 00:59:35,520
and she said what on earth happened to

1627
00:59:40,710 --> 00:59:38,480
you he says i've been attacked

1628
00:59:42,390 --> 00:59:40,720
so his wife rung the police

1629
00:59:44,789 --> 00:59:42,400
and the police came

1630
00:59:46,950 --> 00:59:44,799
mr taylor told them what had happened

1631
00:59:49,030 --> 00:59:46,960
he went to the local hospital to be

1632
00:59:51,270 --> 00:59:49,040
checked out but got fed up waiting he

1633
00:59:52,390 --> 00:59:51,280
felt all right so he came back home the

1634
00:59:54,950 --> 00:59:52,400
police

1635
00:59:57,430 --> 00:59:54,960
went to the location and lo and behold

1636
00:59:59,430 --> 00:59:57,440
in that clearing and in that clearing

1637
01:00:01,670 --> 00:59:59,440
only

1638
01:00:04,069 --> 01:00:01,680
were some marks on the ground

1639
01:00:06,309 --> 01:00:04,079
and there were two like tractor marks

1640
01:00:08,710 --> 01:00:06,319
and there was a variety of like u-shaped

1641
01:00:10,950 --> 01:00:08,720
marks indents in the grass

1642
01:00:12,870 --> 01:00:10,960
uh so they taped it off that night it

1643
01:00:15,829 --> 01:00:12,880
was cold and the ground froze so it

1644
01:00:17,430 --> 01:00:15,839
preserved these marks mr taylor's

1645
01:00:19,750 --> 01:00:17,440
trousers

1646
01:00:21,030 --> 01:00:19,760
were the heavy thick working man's

1647
01:00:22,870 --> 01:00:21,040
trousers

1648
01:00:23,990 --> 01:00:22,880
had been ripped where these things had

1649
01:00:25,430 --> 01:00:24,000
gripped him they were ripped right

1650
01:00:27,990 --> 01:00:25,440
through to the skin

1651
01:00:30,390 --> 01:00:28,000
they were taken away by the police and

1652
01:00:32,870 --> 01:00:30,400
because mr taylor was such an upstanding

1653
01:00:35,750 --> 01:00:32,880
member of the community they conducted a

1654
01:00:37,990 --> 01:00:35,760
full forensic investigation

1655
01:00:40,630 --> 01:00:38,000
which included them doing a diagram a

1656
01:00:43,990 --> 01:00:40,640
detailed diagram of these indentations

1657
01:00:45,990 --> 01:00:44,000
in the ground photographs of them and

1658
01:00:48,069 --> 01:00:46,000
they sent these trousers to the forensic

1659
01:00:50,470 --> 01:00:48,079
science laboratory

1660
01:00:52,150 --> 01:00:50,480
and they couldn't figure out what caused

1661
01:00:53,109 --> 01:00:52,160
them all they would say is that these

1662
01:00:55,190 --> 01:00:53,119
rips

1663
01:00:57,190 --> 01:00:55,200
were consistent with what mr taylor had

1664
01:00:59,510 --> 01:00:57,200
reported there's something grabbing him

1665
01:01:00,549 --> 01:00:59,520
and pulling in upwards

1666
01:01:03,990 --> 01:01:00,559
and

1667
01:01:05,910 --> 01:01:04,000
officers involved have gone on the

1668
01:01:08,150 --> 01:01:05,920
record since then

1669
01:01:09,349 --> 01:01:08,160
i went to speak to mr taylor after he'd

1670
01:01:11,430 --> 01:01:09,359
retired

1671
01:01:12,390 --> 01:01:11,440
uh it moved from livingston to another

1672
01:01:13,750 --> 01:01:12,400
town

1673
01:01:15,670 --> 01:01:13,760
uh i went with my colleague from

1674
01:01:16,950 --> 01:01:15,680
scotland malcolm robinson

1675
01:01:19,190 --> 01:01:16,960
and he was a

1676
01:01:21,270 --> 01:01:19,200
when you talk about a down-to-earth

1677
01:01:23,430 --> 01:01:21,280
person martin you couldn't get any more

1678
01:01:24,950 --> 01:01:23,440
down to earth than mr taylor

1679
01:01:26,710 --> 01:01:24,960
so malcolm and i

1680
01:01:28,549 --> 01:01:26,720
went to decamont woods

1681
01:01:30,549 --> 01:01:28,559
malcolm knew the location because he'd

1682
01:01:33,829 --> 01:01:30,559
been there originally i think within a

1683
01:01:35,510 --> 01:01:33,839
day or two of the incident happening

1684
01:01:37,030 --> 01:01:35,520
the trees have obviously grown a lot

1685
01:01:39,430 --> 01:01:37,040
taller since then

1686
01:01:41,270 --> 01:01:39,440
and it where this clearing in the woods

1687
01:01:43,270 --> 01:01:41,280
it still is

1688
01:01:45,349 --> 01:01:43,280
the the local council had put a picnic

1689
01:01:48,870 --> 01:01:45,359
bench and it was concreted into it so i

1690
01:01:50,710 --> 01:01:48,880
just said to malcolm off off cough

1691
01:01:53,349 --> 01:01:50,720
why don't you get a little blast brass

1692
01:01:55,670 --> 01:01:53,359
plaquemine and screw it onto the picnic

1693
01:01:58,710 --> 01:01:55,680
bench i'm sure nobody all mined

1694
01:02:01,430 --> 01:01:58,720
so malcolm much to his credit martin

1695
01:02:03,510 --> 01:02:01,440
went to the local council with this idea

1696
01:02:05,990 --> 01:02:03,520
and it ended up not just a little brass

1697
01:02:08,470 --> 01:02:06,000
plaque but a huge great stone cane with

1698
01:02:10,309 --> 01:02:08,480
a with a with a plaque on it and today

1699
01:02:12,630 --> 01:02:10,319
there's even signage telling you about

1700
01:02:15,510 --> 01:02:12,640
it and that's all to malcolm's credit

1701
01:02:16,870 --> 01:02:15,520
i'm i i may have opened my mouth and

1702
01:02:18,309 --> 01:02:16,880
mentioned it but

1703
01:02:20,390 --> 01:02:18,319
i don't take any credit for it it was

1704
01:02:23,430 --> 01:02:20,400
all down to malcolm and

1705
01:02:24,390 --> 01:02:23,440
you know mr taylor has sadly passed away

1706
01:02:25,990 --> 01:02:24,400
now

1707
01:02:28,069 --> 01:02:26,000
malcolm robinson wrote a whole book

1708
01:02:30,309 --> 01:02:28,079
about this but i have free i have

1709
01:02:31,430 --> 01:02:30,319
featured it in my new book ufo landings

1710
01:02:33,990 --> 01:02:31,440
uk

1711
01:02:36,710 --> 01:02:34,000
so you see you see a drawing of it the

1712
01:02:39,430 --> 01:02:36,720
the police diagram is reproduced and the

1713
01:02:42,069 --> 01:02:39,440
photographs and one of the pages from

1714
01:02:45,990 --> 01:02:42,079
their their official report and it's the

1715
01:02:48,710 --> 01:02:46,000
only ufo landing case martin in the uk

1716
01:02:51,109 --> 01:02:48,720
that's had a full forensic police

1717
01:02:53,190 --> 01:02:51,119
investigation carried out on it that's

1718
01:02:55,109 --> 01:02:53,200
the only one i've ever heard of as well

1719
01:02:57,029 --> 01:02:55,119
i did hear about that and i i can't

1720
01:02:59,510 --> 01:02:57,039
remember where i read about it but we

1721
01:03:02,870 --> 01:02:59,520
are out of time thank you so much and uh

1722
01:03:05,510 --> 01:03:02,880
the the book is called ufo landings uk

1723
01:03:08,789 --> 01:03:05,520
and it's right down in the text uh below

1724
01:03:10,549 --> 01:03:08,799
or in the show notes as always uh philip

1725
01:03:12,150 --> 01:03:10,559
it's a real pleasure speaking with you

1726
01:03:14,870 --> 01:03:12,160
now the pleasure's all mine martin thank

1727
01:03:16,470 --> 01:03:14,880
you very much all right you take care

1728
01:03:18,309 --> 01:03:16,480
bye bye bye

1729
01:03:20,390 --> 01:03:18,319
and uh if

1730
01:03:22,549 --> 01:03:20,400
everything is working fine you should be

1731
01:03:24,069 --> 01:03:22,559
seeing me back here with charles lear in

1732
01:03:25,990 --> 01:03:24,079
just one minute

1733
01:03:28,390 --> 01:03:26,000
the believer is the chilling true story

1734
01:03:30,710 --> 01:03:28,400
of dr john mack a renowned harvard

1735
01:03:33,270 --> 01:03:30,720
psychiatrist and pulitzer prize winner

1736
01:03:35,990 --> 01:03:33,280
this is a outreach program from the

1737
01:03:38,390 --> 01:03:36,000
cosmos to the consciously impaired he

1738
01:03:40,150 --> 01:03:38,400
risked it all to investigate human

1739
01:03:41,349 --> 01:03:40,160
encounters with aelia

1740
01:03:44,069 --> 01:03:41,359
the believer

1741
01:03:46,309 --> 01:03:44,079
alien encounters hard science and the

1742
01:03:48,150 --> 01:03:46,319
passion of john mack written by

1743
01:03:50,470 --> 01:03:48,160
award-winning former new york times

1744
01:03:52,549 --> 01:03:50,480
journalist and author ralph blumenthal

1745
01:03:59,190 --> 01:03:52,559
now available in paperback from high

1746
01:04:05,510 --> 01:04:02,950
available june 2022 from flying disc

1747
01:04:08,309 --> 01:04:07,270
a book about the people involved in the

1748
01:04:09,910 --> 01:04:08,319
mystery

1749
01:04:11,430 --> 01:04:09,920
covering the golden age of flying

1750
01:04:15,109 --> 01:04:11,440
saucers

1751
01:04:17,270 --> 01:04:15,119
using newsletters magazines case files

1752
01:04:19,349 --> 01:04:17,280
official documents and more

1753
01:04:20,549 --> 01:04:19,359
sure to leave even the die hard skeptic

1754
01:04:23,589 --> 01:04:20,559
wandering

1755
01:04:26,309 --> 01:04:23,599
by charles lehrer new york usa

1756
01:04:30,150 --> 01:04:26,319
the flying saucer investigators

1757
01:04:32,870 --> 01:04:30,160
available on amazon from june 2022

1758
01:04:39,190 --> 01:04:32,880
the flying saucer investigators flying

1759
01:04:43,750 --> 01:04:41,829
all right and uh we're back and we're

1760
01:04:46,150 --> 01:04:43,760
going to be coming right up with charles

1761
01:04:47,990 --> 01:04:46,160
in just a second i did want to

1762
01:04:50,870 --> 01:04:48,000
say that um

1763
01:04:52,390 --> 01:04:50,880
something came in while this was going

1764
01:04:53,589 --> 01:04:52,400
on remember tomorrow night i'm going to

1765
01:04:54,390 --> 01:04:53,599
be over

1766
01:04:56,870 --> 01:04:54,400
at

1767
01:04:59,910 --> 01:04:56,880
right here on youtube and facebook as

1768
01:05:03,349 --> 01:04:59,920
well um with becky ferreira uh talking

1769
01:05:05,190 --> 01:05:03,359
about possible life on europa

1770
01:05:08,150 --> 01:05:05,200
and uh so

1771
01:05:11,270 --> 01:05:08,160
mark d'antonio will be enjoy uh joining

1772
01:05:13,510 --> 01:05:11,280
me then as a co-host so that should be

1773
01:05:15,029 --> 01:05:13,520
extra exciting because of all the great

1774
01:05:16,789 --> 01:05:15,039
questions that they'll

1775
01:05:18,870 --> 01:05:16,799
maybe even both have for each other but

1776
01:05:20,789 --> 01:05:18,880
it should be great so remember tomorrow

1777
01:05:23,190 --> 01:05:20,799
night at eight o'clock right here on the

1778
01:05:24,870 --> 01:05:23,200
youtube channel and i am going to run

1779
01:05:26,870 --> 01:05:24,880
that eventually in a couple days that

1780
01:05:29,589 --> 01:05:26,880
will go through the podcast

1781
01:05:33,109 --> 01:05:29,599
feed as well and so it gives me great

1782
01:05:34,549 --> 01:05:33,119
pleasure to talk tonight to charles lear

1783
01:05:37,109 --> 01:05:34,559
he's been

1784
01:05:39,670 --> 01:05:37,119
doing some wonderful blogs over the last

1785
01:05:42,870 --> 01:05:39,680
several years and if you watch this

1786
01:05:45,430 --> 01:05:42,880
youtube channel or you are a subscriber

1787
01:05:47,190 --> 01:05:45,440
to the podcast you hear the audio blogs

1788
01:05:50,870 --> 01:05:47,200
he puts his great words

1789
01:05:51,910 --> 01:05:50,880
that he writes into audio he uh composed

1790
01:05:53,349 --> 01:05:51,920
a book

1791
01:05:55,589 --> 01:05:53,359
and uh we're going to be talking about

1792
01:05:57,349 --> 01:05:55,599
that right now and here he is charles

1793
01:05:59,829 --> 01:05:57,359
welcome to the show charles

1794
01:06:01,990 --> 01:05:59,839
hello martin good to see you

1795
01:06:04,390 --> 01:06:02,000
how are we saying

1796
01:06:06,789 --> 01:06:04,400
i was we're all good we're all good

1797
01:06:08,390 --> 01:06:06,799
it was great actually we hung out and at

1798
01:06:10,870 --> 01:06:08,400
pine bush a little bit that was a lot of

1799
01:06:12,309 --> 01:06:10,880
fun i was it was really cool good to see

1800
01:06:14,870 --> 01:06:12,319
you man

1801
01:06:16,470 --> 01:06:14,880
yeah yeah it was great so i i do want to

1802
01:06:19,270 --> 01:06:16,480
first of all i want to thank you for all

1803
01:06:20,309 --> 01:06:19,280
your great work it's uh it's been such a

1804
01:06:22,230 --> 01:06:20,319
pleasure

1805
01:06:23,829 --> 01:06:22,240
you really you really do a lot of

1806
01:06:26,150 --> 01:06:23,839
research and for and you i know you're

1807
01:06:28,870 --> 01:06:26,160
going back out to new mexico but you

1808
01:06:31,670 --> 01:06:28,880
were out at dave marlar's

1809
01:06:33,190 --> 01:06:31,680
archives working away digging through

1810
01:06:35,270 --> 01:06:33,200
for a lot of these

1811
01:06:37,109 --> 01:06:35,280
uh blogs that you write which i think is

1812
01:06:39,910 --> 01:06:37,119
uh i mean you really go

1813
01:06:41,510 --> 01:06:39,920
beyond and and not just

1814
01:06:43,589 --> 01:06:41,520
uh googling stuff

1815
01:06:45,910 --> 01:06:43,599
so you go in pretty deep i think it's a

1816
01:06:47,430 --> 01:06:45,920
bit of uh obsessive-compulsive disorder

1817
01:06:49,589 --> 01:06:47,440
quite frankly

1818
01:06:51,029 --> 01:06:49,599
well i'm glad you have it about this

1819
01:06:53,589 --> 01:06:51,039
yeah yeah well you know as long as you

1820
01:06:55,270 --> 01:06:53,599
channel it it can be a good thing

1821
01:06:58,309 --> 01:06:55,280
that's right that's right

1822
01:07:01,670 --> 01:06:58,319
so the book i'm so glad that you wrote

1823
01:07:04,069 --> 01:07:01,680
this that you decided to to do this

1824
01:07:05,510 --> 01:07:04,079
and uh i can't remember what that it was

1825
01:07:06,470 --> 01:07:05,520
about a year you were working on this

1826
01:07:08,069 --> 01:07:06,480
wasn't it

1827
01:07:10,390 --> 01:07:08,079
um

1828
01:07:12,230 --> 01:07:10,400
two years ago i i got started was it two

1829
01:07:14,309 --> 01:07:12,240
years yeah i can't i can't even

1830
01:07:15,510 --> 01:07:14,319
understand how time seems like it passes

1831
01:07:16,950 --> 01:07:15,520
so quickly

1832
01:07:19,029 --> 01:07:16,960
yeah what's that that seems like it's

1833
01:07:21,750 --> 01:07:19,039
flying folks

1834
01:07:25,270 --> 01:07:21,760
yeah that's right that's right so uh so

1835
01:07:27,109 --> 01:07:25,280
it's been two years and uh and

1836
01:07:30,069 --> 01:07:27,119
and uh

1837
01:07:33,510 --> 01:07:30,079
i guess i haven't really had you on very

1838
01:07:34,870 --> 01:07:33,520
long previously to ask you this question

1839
01:07:37,190 --> 01:07:34,880
in the first place because i know you

1840
01:07:38,470 --> 01:07:37,200
have a a whole bunch of varying

1841
01:07:40,829 --> 01:07:38,480
interests

1842
01:07:43,270 --> 01:07:40,839
um what started you looking at this

1843
01:07:45,670 --> 01:07:43,280
topic to begin with

1844
01:07:47,109 --> 01:07:45,680
born interested in this um

1845
01:07:54,230 --> 01:07:47,119
the

1846
01:07:56,950 --> 01:07:54,240
charles burlitz

1847
01:07:59,990 --> 01:07:56,960
but when uh when you could get i had an

1848
01:08:01,750 --> 01:08:00,000
awesome video store in uh there was in

1849
01:08:04,549 --> 01:08:01,760
williamsburg that had

1850
01:08:06,549 --> 01:08:04,559
every ufo documentary you could think of

1851
01:08:09,750 --> 01:08:06,559
on videotape

1852
01:08:12,069 --> 01:08:09,760
and i started just

1853
01:08:13,990 --> 01:08:12,079
i i ran it every damn one and watched

1854
01:08:15,990 --> 01:08:14,000
every damn one repeatedly and the best

1855
01:08:18,470 --> 01:08:16,000
thing was is that um

1856
01:08:21,110 --> 01:08:18,480
i like taking naps with them on because

1857
01:08:22,950 --> 01:08:21,120
the synth music was really cool and it's

1858
01:08:24,870 --> 01:08:22,960
kind of like baseball to me uh you know

1859
01:08:26,789 --> 01:08:24,880
it was interesting enough that it's cool

1860
01:08:29,590 --> 01:08:26,799
when i'm awake and if i drift off and

1861
01:08:32,229 --> 01:08:29,600
come back i probably didn't miss much

1862
01:08:34,470 --> 01:08:32,239
but you could also watch them repeatedly

1863
01:08:36,229 --> 01:08:34,480
that way

1864
01:08:38,630 --> 01:08:36,239
but what

1865
01:08:42,309 --> 01:08:38,640
really got me uh

1866
01:08:44,470 --> 01:08:42,319
in uh deep was writing for you and um i

1867
01:08:45,430 --> 01:08:44,480
actually started writing for martin

1868
01:08:48,550 --> 01:08:45,440
because

1869
01:08:51,510 --> 01:08:48,560
he used to offer this second hour as

1870
01:08:53,910 --> 01:08:51,520
premium uh and in order to oh that's

1871
01:08:57,349 --> 01:08:53,920
right get that you had to

1872
01:08:59,189 --> 01:08:57,359
uh it was a little uh contribution via

1873
01:09:02,229 --> 01:08:59,199
paypal i didn't want to get a paypal

1874
01:09:03,749 --> 01:09:02,239
account i said hey martin uh i see you

1875
01:09:06,390 --> 01:09:03,759
have a uh

1876
01:09:08,789 --> 01:09:06,400
a guest blog spot would it be cool if i

1877
01:09:11,030 --> 01:09:08,799
wrote you a blog on a regular basis and

1878
01:09:14,390 --> 01:09:11,040
could i get that second hour he said

1879
01:09:17,189 --> 01:09:14,400
sure so i started writing and uh you're

1880
01:09:18,950 --> 01:09:17,199
like my cbgbs martin you gave me a place

1881
01:09:22,309 --> 01:09:18,960
to be bad

1882
01:09:24,470 --> 01:09:22,319
so hopefully i've improved i've

1883
01:09:28,070 --> 01:09:24,480
i've learned a great deal just writing

1884
01:09:30,390 --> 01:09:28,080
i've actually uh really um

1885
01:09:32,550 --> 01:09:30,400
studied things like grammar so now i

1886
01:09:35,749 --> 01:09:32,560
know like things i know what an

1887
01:09:38,870 --> 01:09:35,759
independent clause is a dependent clause

1888
01:09:40,229 --> 01:09:38,880
uh noun pronoun uh subject object all

1889
01:09:43,349 --> 01:09:40,239
these you know

1890
01:09:46,070 --> 01:09:43,359
uh arcane uh this arcane knowledge i've

1891
01:09:48,470 --> 01:09:46,080
acquired just writing for you

1892
01:09:51,590 --> 01:09:48,480
um but it

1893
01:09:55,910 --> 01:09:51,600
that so yeah that but they it

1894
01:09:57,910 --> 01:09:57,030
um

1895
01:10:00,470 --> 01:09:57,920
really

1896
01:10:04,630 --> 01:10:00,480
my plate

1897
01:10:07,030 --> 01:10:04,640
i guess a niche a perspective uh and i

1898
01:10:09,910 --> 01:10:07,040
guess an approach just came about how i

1899
01:10:12,070 --> 01:10:09,920
like to approach the subject and how i

1900
01:10:13,669 --> 01:10:12,080
interest um

1901
01:10:15,030 --> 01:10:13,679
how i

1902
01:10:16,630 --> 01:10:15,040
uh

1903
01:10:19,270 --> 01:10:16,640
do i get the most enjoyment out of the

1904
01:10:22,550 --> 01:10:19,280
subject and that's looking at it uh

1905
01:10:25,350 --> 01:10:22,560
factually and historically and the

1906
01:10:27,430 --> 01:10:25,360
history is fact and

1907
01:10:30,870 --> 01:10:27,440
you know what's amazing is you've got

1908
01:10:32,630 --> 01:10:30,880
police reports you've got

1909
01:10:34,070 --> 01:10:32,640
witness testimony

1910
01:10:36,149 --> 01:10:34,080
you've got

1911
01:10:38,870 --> 01:10:36,159
air force reports

1912
01:10:42,550 --> 01:10:38,880
and all the documentation

1913
01:10:44,709 --> 01:10:42,560
that's real and i really like that and

1914
01:10:45,590 --> 01:10:44,719
some of the stories they tell you to say

1915
01:10:46,709 --> 01:10:45,600
no

1916
01:10:49,430 --> 01:10:46,719
okay

1917
01:10:51,030 --> 01:10:49,440
um you know and yeah well i like the

1918
01:10:53,669 --> 01:10:51,040
fact that you have

1919
01:10:55,510 --> 01:10:53,679
you have um

1920
01:10:57,189 --> 01:10:55,520
well you don't you don't really you kind

1921
01:10:59,510 --> 01:10:57,199
of put it out there this is for the

1922
01:11:01,990 --> 01:10:59,520
blogs you know you kind of put it out

1923
01:11:04,709 --> 01:11:02,000
there and then you let the people decide

1924
01:11:06,870 --> 01:11:04,719
well this is absolutely crazy

1925
01:11:08,870 --> 01:11:06,880
or it's not and but you you write

1926
01:11:10,790 --> 01:11:08,880
exactly what they say

1927
01:11:13,270 --> 01:11:10,800
and you know their witness report and

1928
01:11:15,270 --> 01:11:13,280
sometimes you know it's way out there

1929
01:11:18,149 --> 01:11:15,280
but yeah but you still you still this is

1930
01:11:20,390 --> 01:11:18,159
this is what he reported and then um i

1931
01:11:21,910 --> 01:11:20,400
like it at the end sometimes you have

1932
01:11:23,110 --> 01:11:21,920
like a little bit of humor at the end

1933
01:11:24,830 --> 01:11:23,120
the way you

1934
01:11:28,790 --> 01:11:24,840
you know yeah i like

1935
01:11:31,189 --> 01:11:28,800
it yeah a little comic button yeah if if

1936
01:11:32,070 --> 01:11:31,199
it's appropriate sometimes it'll just

1937
01:11:33,270 --> 01:11:32,080
end

1938
01:11:36,070 --> 01:11:33,280
but

1939
01:11:37,990 --> 01:11:36,080
yeah and uh i i put everything under

1940
01:11:39,110 --> 01:11:38,000
what i like to call my according to

1941
01:11:41,030 --> 01:11:39,120
umbrella

1942
01:11:43,430 --> 01:11:41,040
so according to yes according to that's

1943
01:11:45,110 --> 01:11:43,440
right yeah yeah and there's some really

1944
01:11:47,590 --> 01:11:45,120
bizarre things i mean you did a

1945
01:11:50,550 --> 01:11:47,600
four-part series i think it was four

1946
01:11:52,870 --> 01:11:50,560
parts on that woman that um

1947
01:11:54,870 --> 01:11:52,880
and she was uh

1948
01:11:57,110 --> 01:11:54,880
how can i say this in a nice way she

1949
01:11:58,870 --> 01:11:57,120
would have a really hard time walking 65

1950
01:12:02,390 --> 01:11:58,880
miles i think it was something like that

1951
01:12:04,070 --> 01:12:02,400
right yeah yes she was in brazil rather

1952
01:12:06,390 --> 01:12:04,080
robust

1953
01:12:09,350 --> 01:12:06,400
yeah that's the way to put it yes yeah

1954
01:12:12,229 --> 01:12:09,360
but um but she in in the night when she

1955
01:12:14,149 --> 01:12:12,239
said she was abducted by aliens no no

1956
01:12:16,709 --> 01:12:14,159
she that's what's cool she didn't say

1957
01:12:18,070 --> 01:12:16,719
that oh that's right that's what i liked

1958
01:12:20,709 --> 01:12:18,080
about it it was other people's

1959
01:12:23,270 --> 01:12:20,719
speculating right right yeah she was on

1960
01:12:26,229 --> 01:12:23,280
um well the story is real quick for the

1961
01:12:29,430 --> 01:12:26,239
listeners is that uh she saw a bright

1962
01:12:31,189 --> 01:12:29,440
flash this is argentina

1963
01:12:33,590 --> 01:12:31,199
and

1964
01:12:35,830 --> 01:12:33,600
next thing she knew she

1965
01:12:41,750 --> 01:12:35,840
woke up on the side of a road in a town

1966
01:12:45,430 --> 01:12:43,189
shorter or longer

1967
01:12:48,310 --> 01:12:45,440
i think it's about 65 miles away

1968
01:12:49,669 --> 01:12:48,320
somebody google that but anyway

1969
01:12:51,590 --> 01:12:49,679
and

1970
01:12:52,870 --> 01:12:51,600
the night before there was a police

1971
01:12:55,030 --> 01:12:52,880
search for her

1972
01:12:56,229 --> 01:12:55,040
her husband was just mystified where did

1973
01:12:57,910 --> 01:12:56,239
she go

1974
01:12:59,110 --> 01:12:57,920
she called her family from the side of

1975
01:13:00,870 --> 01:12:59,120
the road

1976
01:13:02,310 --> 01:13:00,880
and

1977
01:13:04,229 --> 01:13:02,320
uh

1978
01:13:05,590 --> 01:13:04,239
you know the the the police in the town

1979
01:13:07,430 --> 01:13:05,600
picked her up

1980
01:13:10,149 --> 01:13:07,440
and she went to the hospital they

1981
01:13:11,590 --> 01:13:10,159
examined her and

1982
01:13:13,910 --> 01:13:11,600
you know this

1983
01:13:15,910 --> 01:13:13,920
she had no idea what happened to her and

1984
01:13:16,870 --> 01:13:15,920
nobody else did either and the case was

1985
01:13:19,270 --> 01:13:16,880
actually

1986
01:13:21,990 --> 01:13:19,280
investigated by the local district

1987
01:13:24,149 --> 01:13:22,000
attorney in the town where she was found

1988
01:13:25,990 --> 01:13:24,159
uh

1989
01:13:27,350 --> 01:13:26,000
they said you know as a criminal case

1990
01:13:28,550 --> 01:13:27,360
because this could have been a human

1991
01:13:29,990 --> 01:13:28,560
abduction

1992
01:13:33,350 --> 01:13:30,000
um

1993
01:13:35,669 --> 01:13:33,360
sorry so she uh yeah this was a real

1994
01:13:37,669 --> 01:13:35,679
this was you know a real thing really

1995
01:13:39,189 --> 01:13:37,679
investigated and a strange story yeah

1996
01:13:41,590 --> 01:13:39,199
when she was interviewed on a local

1997
01:13:43,430 --> 01:13:41,600
television station yeah they kept saying

1998
01:13:45,189 --> 01:13:43,440
so it's this where you were abducted by

1999
01:13:47,110 --> 01:13:45,199
the aliens and she's i don't know what

2000
01:13:49,350 --> 01:13:47,120
happened to me and she stuck to that

2001
01:13:51,189 --> 01:13:49,360
which i admired a great deal

2002
01:13:53,030 --> 01:13:51,199
unfortunately

2003
01:13:54,310 --> 01:13:53,040
very recently

2004
01:14:01,590 --> 01:13:54,320
she

2005
01:14:04,149 --> 01:14:01,600
whoever took her uh and

2006
01:14:06,390 --> 01:14:04,159
she came forward in the press uh saying

2007
01:14:09,910 --> 01:14:06,400
you know yeah i think i was impregnated

2008
01:14:12,310 --> 01:14:09,920
by uh extraterrestrials and i need to go

2009
01:14:14,070 --> 01:14:12,320
get an ultrasound and she

2010
01:14:16,149 --> 01:14:14,080
write to the reporter you think i could

2011
01:14:17,830 --> 01:14:16,159
so she went right that she went no no

2012
01:14:19,669 --> 01:14:17,840
she talked to the reporter and said can

2013
01:14:22,149 --> 01:14:19,679
you slip me a little something something

2014
01:14:24,229 --> 01:14:22,159
i don't have very much money

2015
01:14:25,830 --> 01:14:24,239
so she hit the reporter up for money

2016
01:14:29,510 --> 01:14:25,840
during the interview

2017
01:14:31,430 --> 01:14:29,520
um oh that's perfect yeah yeah so

2018
01:14:32,630 --> 01:14:31,440
that puts it into a really odd

2019
01:14:34,790 --> 01:14:32,640
perspective though because in the

2020
01:14:36,310 --> 01:14:34,800
beginning it's it really seems like

2021
01:14:37,590 --> 01:14:36,320
something definitely happened to this

2022
01:14:39,590 --> 01:14:37,600
poor woman

2023
01:14:42,310 --> 01:14:39,600
that she can't explain

2024
01:14:44,870 --> 01:14:42,320
uh but then you know being rather

2025
01:14:47,669 --> 01:14:44,880
unsophisticated she

2026
01:14:50,709 --> 01:14:47,679
went into this whole different area and

2027
01:14:53,110 --> 01:14:50,719
for me you know that doesn't

2028
01:14:55,030 --> 01:14:53,120
kill the whole story for me maybe

2029
01:14:58,229 --> 01:14:55,040
you know i don't believe she was

2030
01:15:01,110 --> 01:14:58,239
impregnated by aliens necessarily you

2031
01:15:03,430 --> 01:15:01,120
know i i haven't seen any follow-up on

2032
01:15:05,350 --> 01:15:03,440
it since but i had the pressure sure

2033
01:15:07,189 --> 01:15:05,360
just dropped it i haven't seen a thing

2034
01:15:08,550 --> 01:15:07,199
about it afterwards

2035
01:15:11,750 --> 01:15:08,560
but you know that's an interesting

2036
01:15:14,070 --> 01:15:11,760
example of how a case can

2037
01:15:16,470 --> 01:15:14,080
you know there's a really credible core

2038
01:15:17,910 --> 01:15:16,480
to a case and then all of a sudden

2039
01:15:19,669 --> 01:15:17,920
something

2040
01:15:21,270 --> 01:15:19,679
throws it out of whack i don't think it

2041
01:15:23,669 --> 01:15:21,280
necessarily means you throw the whole

2042
01:15:26,390 --> 01:15:23,679
thing out i think that was that that's

2043
01:15:29,110 --> 01:15:26,400
what really intrigued me about that case

2044
01:15:31,030 --> 01:15:29,120
yeah yeah so let's talk about your book

2045
01:15:32,070 --> 01:15:31,040
how did you approach

2046
01:15:33,990 --> 01:15:32,080
um

2047
01:15:36,229 --> 01:15:34,000
writing your book first of all did you

2048
01:15:37,990 --> 01:15:36,239
decide to do it right off on you know

2049
01:15:39,910 --> 01:15:38,000
like the historic cases like you like to

2050
01:15:43,430 --> 01:15:39,920
dive into a lot of the historic

2051
01:15:45,910 --> 01:15:43,440
uh occasions a lot of unknown cases but

2052
01:15:49,350 --> 01:15:45,920
sorry yeah um

2053
01:15:52,149 --> 01:15:49,360
yeah what really got me i i was

2054
01:15:53,430 --> 01:15:52,159
when you read the mothman prophecies by

2055
01:15:55,430 --> 01:15:53,440
john keel

2056
01:15:57,910 --> 01:15:55,440
he's got all these

2057
01:16:01,830 --> 01:15:57,920
amazing characters in there

2058
01:16:03,590 --> 01:16:01,840
jim mosely gray barker ivan t sanderson

2059
01:16:05,350 --> 01:16:03,600
and

2060
01:16:10,709 --> 01:16:05,360
i

2061
01:16:13,430 --> 01:16:10,719
more about them

2062
01:16:14,950 --> 01:16:13,440
uh and i started learning about them i

2063
01:16:18,470 --> 01:16:14,960
mean you know it's fascinating jim

2064
01:16:20,550 --> 01:16:18,480
mosley and gray barker kind of torturing

2065
01:16:22,390 --> 01:16:20,560
poor john gill by making prank phone

2066
01:16:25,430 --> 01:16:22,400
calls and pretending they were like men

2067
01:16:28,470 --> 01:16:25,440
in black or you know barclays

2068
01:16:31,189 --> 01:16:28,480
barker talked to him as barker john kill

2069
01:16:33,350 --> 01:16:31,199
has notes that uh doug skinner cat doug

2070
01:16:34,950 --> 01:16:33,360
kenner skinner runs a website called

2071
01:16:36,790 --> 01:16:34,960
johnkeel.com

2072
01:16:39,110 --> 01:16:36,800
and doug skinner

2073
01:16:41,110 --> 01:16:39,120
actually has john keel's actual notes

2074
01:16:43,110 --> 01:16:41,120
about this phone call from gray barker

2075
01:16:44,790 --> 01:16:43,120
gray barker was an investigator he was

2076
01:16:47,510 --> 01:16:44,800
the guy who investigated the flatwoods

2077
01:16:49,910 --> 01:16:47,520
monster case and wrote about it uh they

2078
01:16:52,550 --> 01:16:49,920
knew too much about flying saucers uh

2079
01:16:54,390 --> 01:16:52,560
1956 book i believe but he investigated

2080
01:16:55,110 --> 01:16:54,400
in 1952.

2081
01:16:56,669 --> 01:16:55,120
so

2082
01:16:58,630 --> 01:16:56,679
yeah great in

2083
01:17:00,630 --> 01:16:58,640
1967 uh

2084
01:17:02,070 --> 01:17:00,640
keel was investigating the mothman and

2085
01:17:06,470 --> 01:17:02,080
barker

2086
01:17:09,270 --> 01:17:06,480
together investigating the case and then

2087
01:17:12,709 --> 01:17:09,280
they kind of went their separate ways

2088
01:17:15,110 --> 01:17:12,719
uh barker at one point it seems barker

2089
01:17:17,990 --> 01:17:15,120
called keel

2090
01:17:19,990 --> 01:17:18,000
as gray barker but called in mr keel and

2091
01:17:22,790 --> 01:17:20,000
said you know there's this case hello mr

2092
01:17:24,149 --> 01:17:22,800
kiel yes uh there's this case in

2093
01:17:26,070 --> 01:17:24,159
pennsylvania i think you should

2094
01:17:28,149 --> 01:17:26,080
investigate mr keel

2095
01:17:30,229 --> 01:17:28,159
eddie kept calling him mr keel and kept

2096
01:17:32,870 --> 01:17:30,239
acting like he didn't really know him

2097
01:17:35,990 --> 01:17:32,880
and it's is this great parker yes mr

2098
01:17:37,430 --> 01:17:36,000
keel and i'm mr barker yeah and

2099
01:17:39,430 --> 01:17:37,440
somebody had been calling heels

2100
01:17:42,390 --> 01:17:39,440
pretending to be barker's wife barker

2101
01:17:44,149 --> 01:17:42,400
was gay so he said something called me

2102
01:17:45,910 --> 01:17:44,159
saying you were my you know your wife

2103
01:17:47,750 --> 01:17:45,920
called oh

2104
01:17:49,669 --> 01:17:47,760
mrs barker isn't here or something like

2105
01:17:51,990 --> 01:17:49,679
that but anyway keel has all these notes

2106
01:17:54,390 --> 01:17:52,000
about this phone call and

2107
01:17:57,510 --> 01:17:54,400
you know more odds are it was

2108
01:18:00,070 --> 01:17:57,520
barker uh calling him with a bizarre

2109
01:18:02,550 --> 01:18:00,080
sense of humor uh

2110
01:18:05,189 --> 01:18:02,560
you know uh making up this whole thing

2111
01:18:07,590 --> 01:18:05,199
and messing with him and

2112
01:18:10,229 --> 01:18:07,600
kia was already crazy paranoid and so

2113
01:18:11,510 --> 01:18:10,239
him him and mostly mess mostly in him

2114
01:18:12,790 --> 01:18:11,520
messing with

2115
01:18:15,110 --> 01:18:12,800
uh keel

2116
01:18:17,350 --> 01:18:15,120
uh it didn't help

2117
01:18:20,070 --> 01:18:17,360
so i i had to know who these people were

2118
01:18:21,830 --> 01:18:20,080
so i started looking into it and i

2119
01:18:24,870 --> 01:18:21,840
started actually a couple of times i i

2120
01:18:27,350 --> 01:18:24,880
wrote blogs about them uh right you

2121
01:18:30,470 --> 01:18:27,360
yeah and then i got the idea you know

2122
01:18:31,270 --> 01:18:30,480
that it would make a really good book um

2123
01:18:32,870 --> 01:18:31,280
and

2124
01:18:35,430 --> 01:18:32,880
i'm not sure if i had the idea for the

2125
01:18:38,149 --> 01:18:35,440
book before uh you got

2126
01:18:38,950 --> 01:18:38,159
uh introduced me to uh philip

2127
01:18:43,189 --> 01:18:38,960
uh

2128
01:18:45,510 --> 01:18:43,199
flying death press

2129
01:18:48,070 --> 01:18:45,520
um but yeah so i pitched the idea to

2130
01:18:49,669 --> 01:18:48,080
philip and uh he went for it and we were

2131
01:18:51,189 --> 01:18:49,679
off to the races

2132
01:18:53,189 --> 01:18:51,199
um

2133
01:18:55,430 --> 01:18:53,199
so and and what was really cool is

2134
01:18:58,070 --> 01:18:55,440
writing your blog

2135
01:19:01,750 --> 01:18:58,080
uh i learned where all the archives are

2136
01:19:04,790 --> 01:19:01,760
there are online archives that are just

2137
01:19:06,310 --> 01:19:04,800
comprehensive you can get uh you've got

2138
01:19:08,149 --> 01:19:06,320
af uh

2139
01:19:10,950 --> 01:19:08,159
the archives for the unexplained they're

2140
01:19:13,110 --> 01:19:10,960
based in sweden they have a huge

2141
01:19:15,189 --> 01:19:13,120
physical collection uh and they've

2142
01:19:18,070 --> 01:19:15,199
digitized a good deal of it

2143
01:19:19,669 --> 01:19:18,080
uh wow now is that through does class

2144
01:19:23,510 --> 01:19:19,679
fun have anything to do with that yeah

2145
01:19:26,149 --> 01:19:23,520
that's class fun class fun yeah yes

2146
01:19:27,910 --> 01:19:26,159
now just so uh the listener knows it's

2147
01:19:34,110 --> 01:19:27,920
tough to find so i'm going to give it to

2148
01:19:38,790 --> 01:19:36,550
files.afu.se and that will get you the

2149
01:19:41,350 --> 01:19:38,800
the mother lode but they uh their

2150
01:19:43,750 --> 01:19:41,360
website it's it's difficult to find uh

2151
01:19:46,070 --> 01:19:43,760
so i'm giving that to you yeah uh david

2152
01:19:48,070 --> 01:19:46,080
marlar calls them the the vikings

2153
01:19:50,470 --> 01:19:48,080
because they come over here and to our

2154
01:19:52,870 --> 01:19:50,480
country and uh raid our archives and

2155
01:19:53,910 --> 01:19:52,880
drag them back to sweden

2156
01:19:59,189 --> 01:19:53,920
so

2157
01:20:01,430 --> 01:19:59,199
national investigations committee on

2158
01:20:03,910 --> 01:20:01,440
aerial phenomena that was donald kehoe's

2159
01:20:06,229 --> 01:20:03,920
group our donna kia was the director of

2160
01:20:08,629 --> 01:20:06,239
it and essentially it was his group

2161
01:20:11,110 --> 01:20:08,639
they've got they still have an active

2162
01:20:13,750 --> 01:20:11,120
website that's run by fran rich you can

2163
01:20:14,950 --> 01:20:13,760
find a lot of their case files on that

2164
01:20:16,149 --> 01:20:14,960
website

2165
01:20:18,229 --> 01:20:16,159
um

2166
01:20:21,669 --> 01:20:18,239
the center for ufo studies the group

2167
01:20:24,070 --> 01:20:21,679
started by jl and heineck in 1973.

2168
01:20:26,070 --> 01:20:24,080
they have you can find their case files

2169
01:20:29,910 --> 01:20:26,080
there and they're my favorite they're

2170
01:20:32,470 --> 01:20:30,950
and

2171
01:20:34,470 --> 01:20:32,480
there are derp

2172
01:20:37,430 --> 01:20:34,480
archives.com

2173
01:20:39,030 --> 01:20:37,440
are.org archive.org so

2174
01:20:41,430 --> 01:20:39,040
there are

2175
01:20:42,390 --> 01:20:41,440
so many uh

2176
01:20:45,189 --> 01:20:42,400
uh

2177
01:20:47,189 --> 01:20:45,199
archives just available online and i

2178
01:20:49,270 --> 01:20:47,199
discovered all these and bookmarked them

2179
01:20:50,790 --> 01:20:49,280
writing for you so when the time it came

2180
01:20:53,189 --> 01:20:50,800
time to write the book it was just bang

2181
01:20:55,510 --> 01:20:53,199
bang bang bang bang you know

2182
01:20:58,070 --> 01:20:55,520
well you can see this down in down below

2183
01:21:01,189 --> 01:20:58,080
uh peach polisson says someone type that

2184
01:21:02,550 --> 01:21:01,199
in the show notes please and so uh so

2185
01:21:04,790 --> 01:21:02,560
when we get done here i'm going to ask

2186
01:21:06,870 --> 01:21:04,800
you to email me of those links if you

2187
01:21:09,350 --> 01:21:06,880
would and give away all your precious

2188
01:21:11,510 --> 01:21:09,360
sources uh but we'll have that in the

2189
01:21:13,350 --> 01:21:11,520
show notes and i'll try to remember to

2190
01:21:15,830 --> 01:21:13,360
put that down into the youtube

2191
01:21:18,229 --> 01:21:15,840
video as as as well in the notes down

2192
01:21:20,229 --> 01:21:18,239
there yeah but yeah it's it's it's it's

2193
01:21:22,550 --> 01:21:20,239
great it's it's actually let me give a

2194
01:21:23,750 --> 01:21:22,560
shout out shout out to peach hi peach

2195
01:21:27,350 --> 01:21:23,760
good to see you daryl oh you know who

2196
01:21:29,669 --> 01:21:27,360
that is oh yes i do i know her very well

2197
01:21:32,390 --> 01:21:29,679
yep yep

2198
01:21:34,550 --> 01:21:32,400
so yes i will put those in uh so i'd say

2199
01:21:37,430 --> 01:21:34,560
that you know within the next uh several

2200
01:21:39,189 --> 01:21:37,440
hours they will be in the show notes and

2201
01:21:41,590 --> 01:21:39,199
when uh most people listen to this

2202
01:21:43,590 --> 01:21:41,600
through audio um you can always get to

2203
01:21:45,910 --> 01:21:43,600
the show notes through audio the link is

2204
01:21:49,110 --> 01:21:45,920
always there and as well as and i'll put

2205
01:21:52,310 --> 01:21:49,120
them in and facebook and and uh youtube

2206
01:21:55,590 --> 01:21:52,320
here so we'll have all that so anyway um

2207
01:21:57,830 --> 01:21:55,600
so that's great i'm i'm glad you uh you

2208
01:21:59,830 --> 01:21:57,840
decided to do this i saw that in chapter

2209
01:22:01,350 --> 01:21:59,840
one you might as well i think it's

2210
01:22:04,070 --> 01:22:01,360
chapter one or

2211
01:22:06,070 --> 01:22:04,080
oh chapter one is called what if so why

2212
01:22:07,910 --> 01:22:06,080
don't you explain kind of what what if

2213
01:22:10,470 --> 01:22:07,920
that sounds well this is this is kind of

2214
01:22:12,870 --> 01:22:10,480
funny i i just did a uh

2215
01:22:14,870 --> 01:22:12,880
a show uh i'm not gonna name them but uh

2216
01:22:17,590 --> 01:22:14,880
they they broadcast uh

2217
01:22:19,189 --> 01:22:17,600
from uh one coast to the other coast uh

2218
01:22:21,510 --> 01:22:19,199
i think we

2219
01:22:23,510 --> 01:22:21,520
in two hours we never got past chapter

2220
01:22:26,070 --> 01:22:23,520
three and i'm pretty sure

2221
01:22:28,470 --> 01:22:26,080
uh the guy only read three chapters but

2222
01:22:32,390 --> 01:22:30,310
but he was comprehensive in his

2223
01:22:35,430 --> 01:22:32,400
questions they were really good and we

2224
01:22:38,870 --> 01:22:35,440
had a great chat uh but what was a shame

2225
01:22:39,669 --> 01:22:38,880
is the first three chapters i have um

2226
01:22:41,590 --> 01:22:39,679
there

2227
01:22:44,149 --> 01:22:41,600
are some very sketchy cases you have the

2228
01:22:46,550 --> 01:22:44,159
maury island case oh yeah

2229
01:22:51,270 --> 01:22:46,560
you also have the shaver mystery you

2230
01:22:56,950 --> 01:22:54,310
the darrows uh who live underground and

2231
01:22:58,229 --> 01:22:56,960
control us up here on earth with uh

2232
01:22:59,910 --> 01:22:58,239
uh

2233
01:23:01,030 --> 01:22:59,920
mind control rays

2234
01:23:02,229 --> 01:23:01,040
um

2235
01:23:07,990 --> 01:23:02,239
and

2236
01:23:09,110 --> 01:23:08,000
we got in a little bit into um

2237
01:23:15,669 --> 01:23:09,120
the

2238
01:23:17,910 --> 01:23:15,679
about by frank scully which um involved

2239
01:23:21,990 --> 01:23:17,920
what it turned out to be two con men

2240
01:23:24,070 --> 01:23:22,000
uh selling an oil to that they they were

2241
01:23:25,350 --> 01:23:24,080
selling oil leases telling their

2242
01:23:28,070 --> 01:23:25,360
prospective

2243
01:23:30,070 --> 01:23:28,080
suckers that uh they had a device that

2244
01:23:31,189 --> 01:23:30,080
could find oil it's something known as a

2245
01:23:32,070 --> 01:23:31,199
doodlebug

2246
01:23:34,470 --> 01:23:32,080
uh

2247
01:23:37,110 --> 01:23:34,480
and that they made it with a technology

2248
01:23:39,830 --> 01:23:37,120
from a crash flying saucer uh silas p

2249
01:23:41,990 --> 01:23:39,840
newton and uh leo caballer

2250
01:23:43,030 --> 01:23:42,000
so you know so these are the only cases

2251
01:23:45,669 --> 01:23:43,040
we talked

2252
01:23:47,270 --> 01:23:45,679
about you know i got why don't we stop

2253
01:23:48,709 --> 01:23:47,280
there for just one second because i want

2254
01:23:49,910 --> 01:23:48,719
to talk a little bit about that because

2255
01:23:52,149 --> 01:23:49,920
we're both

2256
01:23:54,550 --> 01:23:52,159
i'm a huge fan of dave marlar i know

2257
01:23:56,870 --> 01:23:54,560
you're you really like dave marlar a lot

2258
01:23:59,110 --> 01:23:56,880
uh you spent a lot of time there but he

2259
01:24:02,229 --> 01:23:59,120
is he has

2260
01:24:03,270 --> 01:24:02,239
surprisingly he's all behind scott and

2261
01:24:06,709 --> 01:24:03,280
susan

2262
01:24:11,189 --> 01:24:06,719
ramsey's idea that the aztec

2263
01:24:13,270 --> 01:24:11,199
crash really happened yeah which is

2264
01:24:15,510 --> 01:24:13,280
yeah i mean he really thinks it happened

2265
01:24:17,270 --> 01:24:15,520
and i you know so i had them both on

2266
01:24:19,990 --> 01:24:17,280
along with someone else

2267
01:24:22,310 --> 01:24:20,000
and i questioned them about you know the

2268
01:24:25,510 --> 01:24:22,320
the whole con man thing they seem to

2269
01:24:27,910 --> 01:24:25,520
have kind of an answer for everything uh

2270
01:24:29,750 --> 01:24:27,920
surprisingly and you know this is where

2271
01:24:32,550 --> 01:24:29,760
it gets really cloudy

2272
01:24:34,229 --> 01:24:32,560
like you can't really tell what's real

2273
01:24:37,750 --> 01:24:34,239
and what's not real

2274
01:24:40,629 --> 01:24:37,760
um you know it's really it's really one

2275
01:24:42,390 --> 01:24:40,639
of those cases like you you kind of go

2276
01:24:45,030 --> 01:24:42,400
back to and say well

2277
01:24:47,510 --> 01:24:45,040
what if you know because of this

2278
01:24:50,070 --> 01:24:47,520
happened or that happened but they they

2279
01:24:52,550 --> 01:24:50,080
seemed totally convinced and i'm i'm

2280
01:24:55,189 --> 01:24:52,560
surprised to say that dave marlar

2281
01:24:56,830 --> 01:24:55,199
um believes that they

2282
01:24:59,030 --> 01:24:56,840
are on to something

2283
01:25:01,430 --> 01:24:59,040
so what are you what are your thoughts

2284
01:25:03,270 --> 01:25:01,440
about that in general i mean

2285
01:25:04,790 --> 01:25:03,280
that particular case when you look into

2286
01:25:06,870 --> 01:25:04,800
it i mean it seems

2287
01:25:09,270 --> 01:25:06,880
like it was a con type of thing more

2288
01:25:14,790 --> 01:25:09,280
than it's hard it's hard to tell though

2289
01:25:19,430 --> 01:25:17,750
you know for the for the for the person

2290
01:25:21,669 --> 01:25:19,440
you know that they're talking that they

2291
01:25:24,229 --> 01:25:21,679
said uh 16 bodies

2292
01:25:26,390 --> 01:25:24,239
dressed in uh the manner of the i think

2293
01:25:28,790 --> 01:25:26,400
it was the 1820s

2294
01:25:30,709 --> 01:25:28,800
so you know he's talking space aliens

2295
01:25:32,709 --> 01:25:30,719
probably dressed in uniforms with brass

2296
01:25:34,790 --> 01:25:32,719
buttons down on them you know

2297
01:25:37,030 --> 01:25:34,800
um maybe they invented a time machine a

2298
01:25:38,070 --> 01:25:37,040
long time ago who knows yeah well in any

2299
01:25:40,950 --> 01:25:38,080
case

2300
01:25:43,750 --> 01:25:40,960
but you know you can make the argument

2301
01:25:45,830 --> 01:25:43,760
uh that this was based on you know where

2302
01:25:47,990 --> 01:25:45,840
did these guys hear about this crash did

2303
01:25:49,030 --> 01:25:48,000
these guys hear about an actual crash

2304
01:25:50,790 --> 01:25:49,040
and then

2305
01:25:53,030 --> 01:25:50,800
you know make up their own shuck and

2306
01:25:54,390 --> 01:25:53,040
jive around that in order to sell their

2307
01:25:55,830 --> 01:25:54,400
doodle bug

2308
01:25:58,229 --> 01:25:55,840
or you know to

2309
01:26:00,470 --> 01:25:58,239
their their scheme uh you know you can

2310
01:26:01,669 --> 01:26:00,480
make that argument and i'm open to it

2311
01:26:03,910 --> 01:26:01,679
absolutely

2312
01:26:06,390 --> 01:26:03,920
and you know can you kind of there's a

2313
01:26:09,110 --> 01:26:06,400
for the news new person that's not

2314
01:26:11,990 --> 01:26:09,120
uh that has just started listening they

2315
01:26:14,070 --> 01:26:12,000
may have no idea at all about this crash

2316
01:26:15,910 --> 01:26:14,080
do you know any details about that in

2317
01:26:17,350 --> 01:26:15,920
particular of what was said to have

2318
01:26:19,990 --> 01:26:17,360
happened

2319
01:26:22,790 --> 01:26:20,000
uh it shows up in frank's frank scully's

2320
01:26:23,830 --> 01:26:22,800
book frank scully wrote for variety

2321
01:26:25,830 --> 01:26:23,840
um

2322
01:26:28,149 --> 01:26:25,840
and

2323
01:26:30,229 --> 01:26:28,159
what happened

2324
01:26:32,310 --> 01:26:30,239
an article showed up in a denver

2325
01:26:34,709 --> 01:26:32,320
newspaper that this guy had given a

2326
01:26:36,470 --> 01:26:34,719
lecture about crash flying saucers i

2327
01:26:37,590 --> 01:26:36,480
think it was three in america and one in

2328
01:26:38,950 --> 01:26:37,600
africa

2329
01:26:41,189 --> 01:26:38,960
and

2330
01:26:42,310 --> 01:26:41,199
who was this mystery man

2331
01:26:45,910 --> 01:26:42,320
uh

2332
01:26:47,350 --> 01:26:45,920
and they found out it was silas p newton

2333
01:26:49,030 --> 01:26:47,360
uh

2334
01:26:54,550 --> 01:26:49,040
so

2335
01:26:56,390 --> 01:26:54,560
got in touch with him and

2336
01:26:58,310 --> 01:26:56,400
uh i think he wrote two articles in

2337
01:27:00,629 --> 01:26:58,320
variety about this case and then wrote

2338
01:27:03,510 --> 01:27:00,639
it in the entire book

2339
01:27:05,510 --> 01:27:03,520
and newton introduced him

2340
01:27:07,910 --> 01:27:05,520
more than likely to a guy named leo

2341
01:27:11,350 --> 01:27:07,920
gebauer leoga bauer

2342
01:27:12,629 --> 01:27:11,360
is mentioned in scully's book as the

2343
01:27:14,870 --> 01:27:12,639
they

2344
01:27:16,950 --> 01:27:14,880
behind the flying saucers i'm pretty

2345
01:27:18,709 --> 01:27:16,960
sure

2346
01:27:21,990 --> 01:27:18,719
you mentioned in scully's book as the

2347
01:27:25,830 --> 01:27:22,000
mysterious dr g so dr g is like the

2348
01:27:28,709 --> 01:27:25,840
insider the government insider who is um

2349
01:27:30,310 --> 01:27:28,719
examined the the the crash material and

2350
01:27:32,790 --> 01:27:30,320
another i think he had a little sport

2351
01:27:36,070 --> 01:27:32,800
model as well uh

2352
01:27:37,350 --> 01:27:36,080
and so he gave um

2353
01:27:43,510 --> 01:27:37,360
and

2354
01:27:46,629 --> 01:27:43,520
did really well

2355
01:27:50,149 --> 01:27:46,639
and and the the story is is that on a

2356
01:27:52,390 --> 01:27:50,159
mesa in aztec new mexico uh they now

2357
01:27:54,070 --> 01:27:52,400
have a very nice jogging trail around

2358
01:27:56,390 --> 01:27:54,080
there with uh

2359
01:27:57,990 --> 01:27:56,400
a memorial to the crash or information

2360
01:28:00,149 --> 01:27:58,000
you know a plaque i think they've got a

2361
01:28:02,310 --> 01:28:00,159
plaque too

2362
01:28:05,430 --> 01:28:02,320
and

2363
01:28:07,990 --> 01:28:05,440
so on this mace of this really big disc

2364
01:28:10,149 --> 01:28:08,000
99 feet in diameter and

2365
01:28:12,950 --> 01:28:10,159
according to

2366
01:28:14,629 --> 01:28:12,960
all the dimensions were uh divisible by

2367
01:28:17,430 --> 01:28:14,639
nine uh for

2368
01:28:18,550 --> 01:28:17,440
mysterious reasons that only the aliens

2369
01:28:20,790 --> 01:28:18,560
understand

2370
01:28:21,669 --> 01:28:20,800
and um

2371
01:28:25,350 --> 01:28:21,679
uh

2372
01:28:28,470 --> 01:28:25,360
in any case the book did work so and and

2373
01:28:30,550 --> 01:28:28,480
he talks about them bombarding it

2374
01:28:32,950 --> 01:28:30,560
with geiger counter rays

2375
01:28:36,870 --> 01:28:32,960
i mean it's it's a little technically

2376
01:28:38,790 --> 01:28:36,880
inept the way he described it uh so they

2377
01:28:42,070 --> 01:28:38,800
made sure it was safe and then they

2378
01:28:44,070 --> 01:28:42,080
pushed they saw a hole in the ship they

2379
01:28:46,550 --> 01:28:44,080
pushed a stick through the hole and

2380
01:28:49,270 --> 01:28:46,560
poked a button and the ship opened up

2381
01:28:50,149 --> 01:28:49,280
and there were 16 bodies in there

2382
01:28:52,070 --> 01:28:50,159
uh

2383
01:28:53,350 --> 01:28:52,080
i think i didn't hear this particular

2384
01:28:56,470 --> 01:28:53,360
account so yeah i think they were

2385
01:28:58,950 --> 01:28:56,480
between four and five feet tall their

2386
01:29:00,709 --> 01:28:58,960
skin was uh chocolate brown

2387
01:29:03,270 --> 01:29:00,719
turned

2388
01:29:06,709 --> 01:29:03,280
chocolate brown they were burned because

2389
01:29:07,590 --> 01:29:06,719
they speculate uh by our atmosphere

2390
01:29:09,189 --> 01:29:07,600
uh

2391
01:29:13,189 --> 01:29:09,199
and they were addressed in the manner of

2392
01:29:15,110 --> 01:29:13,199
the 18 it might have been 1890s

2393
01:29:16,070 --> 01:29:15,120
um

2394
01:29:18,070 --> 01:29:16,080
so

2395
01:29:19,990 --> 01:29:18,080
that that was the story

2396
01:29:22,310 --> 01:29:20,000
um

2397
01:29:23,750 --> 01:29:22,320
and actually scully's book it's like

2398
01:29:29,030 --> 01:29:23,760
this

2399
01:29:31,669 --> 01:29:29,040
in the beginning he has a lot of uh

2400
01:29:32,870 --> 01:29:31,679
astronomical facts and in the end he has

2401
01:29:35,590 --> 01:29:32,880
all these

2402
01:29:37,510 --> 01:29:35,600
crash reports taken from newspapers that

2403
01:29:39,990 --> 01:29:37,520
is actually to me really valuable

2404
01:29:41,990 --> 01:29:40,000
because that's a lot of archive stuff

2405
01:29:43,830 --> 01:29:42,000
that might have just gone missing so

2406
01:29:47,270 --> 01:29:43,840
you've actually got actual

2407
01:29:48,870 --> 01:29:47,280
uh not crash reports but ufo reports uh

2408
01:29:50,550 --> 01:29:48,880
in his book in the beginning is this

2409
01:29:52,470 --> 01:29:50,560
astronomical stuff that's pretty

2410
01:29:54,950 --> 01:29:52,480
accurate and then you've got the story

2411
01:29:55,830 --> 01:29:54,960
kind of sandwiched in there

2412
01:29:58,070 --> 01:29:55,840
so

2413
01:30:01,110 --> 01:29:58,080
that's the genesis of the story well

2414
01:30:03,750 --> 01:30:01,120
what happened was this guy jp khan wrote

2415
01:30:06,870 --> 01:30:03,760
an article for true magazine

2416
01:30:10,070 --> 01:30:06,880
and he looked into it and he smelled a

2417
01:30:11,910 --> 01:30:10,080
rat and he looked into silas p newton uh

2418
01:30:14,310 --> 01:30:11,920
silas p newton

2419
01:30:16,629 --> 01:30:14,320
uh basically passed him off himself off

2420
01:30:17,910 --> 01:30:16,639
as a big man in the oil industry

2421
01:30:21,270 --> 01:30:17,920
uh

2422
01:30:22,470 --> 01:30:21,280
khan found his office it was basically

2423
01:30:28,070 --> 01:30:22,480
uh

2424
01:30:31,510 --> 01:30:28,080
an office for the secretary

2425
01:30:34,550 --> 01:30:31,520
and uh i think it was in denver

2426
01:30:39,229 --> 01:30:34,560
um he had a chat with uh

2427
01:30:45,030 --> 01:30:42,310
re-discovered the rangeley oil field uh

2428
01:30:47,030 --> 01:30:45,040
at the time a subsidiary of uh standard

2429
01:30:48,629 --> 01:30:47,040
oil was running it and so khan went out

2430
01:30:50,070 --> 01:30:48,639
there to talk to them

2431
01:30:52,310 --> 01:30:50,080
no he didn't

2432
01:30:54,149 --> 01:30:52,320
and uh then the guy told him you know

2433
01:30:56,070 --> 01:30:54,159
what this guy does he says he runs the

2434
01:30:59,430 --> 01:30:56,080
doodlebug operation

2435
01:31:02,550 --> 01:30:59,440
uh he brings people out and uh

2436
01:31:04,470 --> 01:31:02,560
sells some worthless oil leases

2437
01:31:05,350 --> 01:31:04,480
so

2438
01:31:06,950 --> 01:31:05,360
khan

2439
01:31:08,790 --> 01:31:06,960
you know uh

2440
01:31:09,910 --> 01:31:08,800
went in on uh

2441
01:31:14,470 --> 01:31:09,920
uh

2442
01:31:16,709 --> 01:31:14,480
by scully to newton

2443
01:31:21,110 --> 01:31:16,719
and newton was flashing around this

2444
01:31:24,229 --> 01:31:21,120
piece of this crash flying saucer a

2445
01:31:25,350 --> 01:31:24,239
aluminum-looking disc

2446
01:31:27,590 --> 01:31:25,360
khan

2447
01:31:29,910 --> 01:31:27,600
had his own maid and

2448
01:31:32,470 --> 01:31:29,920
actually managed to switch the disc and

2449
01:31:34,629 --> 01:31:32,480
take the one that newton had

2450
01:31:37,270 --> 01:31:34,639
uh and switch it for his own

2451
01:31:39,510 --> 01:31:37,280
uh khan went and tested the disc turned

2452
01:31:42,390 --> 01:31:39,520
out to be ordinary cookware aluminum

2453
01:31:45,830 --> 01:31:42,400
that melted at the proper temperature

2454
01:31:46,950 --> 01:31:45,840
not like uh 25 000 degrees that or

2455
01:31:49,189 --> 01:31:46,960
something like

2456
01:31:50,149 --> 01:31:49,199
you know something big that uh newton

2457
01:31:51,189 --> 01:31:50,159
claimed

2458
01:31:52,950 --> 01:31:51,199
um

2459
01:31:57,510 --> 01:31:52,960
so

2460
01:31:59,669 --> 01:31:57,520
article about this basically

2461
01:32:00,629 --> 01:31:59,679
you know exposing who newton was and he

2462
01:32:02,709 --> 01:32:00,639
also

2463
01:32:05,750 --> 01:32:02,719
tracked down leo gabaler

2464
01:32:08,310 --> 01:32:05,760
uh and pretty much said i think this guy

2465
01:32:10,310 --> 01:32:08,320
was the mysterious doctor g

2466
01:32:11,750 --> 01:32:10,320
and then he wrote a form

2467
01:32:15,189 --> 01:32:11,760
he

2468
01:32:17,110 --> 01:32:15,199
people saw this article and

2469
01:32:18,950 --> 01:32:17,120
started saying you know i i

2470
01:32:22,070 --> 01:32:18,960
these guys took me these guys took me

2471
01:32:24,070 --> 01:32:22,080
and and khan put out the word you know

2472
01:32:26,229 --> 01:32:24,080
because statute of limitations was

2473
01:32:27,510 --> 01:32:26,239
running out khan put out the word like

2474
01:32:29,350 --> 01:32:27,520
hey you know you

2475
01:32:30,790 --> 01:32:29,360
if anybody wants to prosecute you you

2476
01:32:32,870 --> 01:32:30,800
better do it soon

2477
01:32:35,350 --> 01:32:32,880
and he found somebody i think

2478
01:32:37,750 --> 01:32:35,360
newton and uh gebauer took him to the

2479
01:32:41,350 --> 01:32:37,760
tune of over 300 000

2480
01:32:42,229 --> 01:32:41,360
and we're talking you know 1947 money

2481
01:32:44,149 --> 01:32:42,239
okay

2482
01:32:46,709 --> 01:32:44,159
millions millions today probably wasn't

2483
01:32:49,110 --> 01:32:46,719
mean and a half today yeah it wasn't 47

2484
01:32:52,149 --> 01:32:49,120
it was a little later than that uh i

2485
01:32:53,669 --> 01:32:52,159
think yeah so they went on trial

2486
01:32:55,030 --> 01:32:53,679
uh yeah this was uh must have been

2487
01:32:57,110 --> 01:32:55,040
around the 50s

2488
01:32:58,950 --> 01:32:57,120
they went on trial

2489
01:33:00,629 --> 01:32:58,960
i don't know yeah this guy brought

2490
01:33:03,189 --> 01:33:00,639
charges against him and they went on

2491
01:33:06,550 --> 01:33:03,199
trial in denver and were found guilty

2492
01:33:10,470 --> 01:33:06,560
uh and ordered to pay restitution

2493
01:33:12,149 --> 01:33:10,480
so the first thing newton did to uh

2494
01:33:14,470 --> 01:33:12,159
get up some of the money was sell

2495
01:33:17,270 --> 01:33:14,480
worthless uranium stock

2496
01:33:19,510 --> 01:33:17,280
and he got busted for that but somehow

2497
01:33:22,550 --> 01:33:19,520
he stayed out of prison and so that the

2498
01:33:23,990 --> 01:33:22,560
conspiracy theorists take that

2499
01:33:26,629 --> 01:33:24,000
how did this guy

2500
01:33:28,629 --> 01:33:26,639
you know get convicted and not end up in

2501
01:33:30,950 --> 01:33:28,639
prison for it so you know that's a

2502
01:33:33,350 --> 01:33:30,960
mystery in itself but yeah that's so

2503
01:33:35,510 --> 01:33:33,360
that's the story in the nutshell

2504
01:33:37,830 --> 01:33:35,520
yeah thank you so here's a question in

2505
01:33:40,629 --> 01:33:37,840
chat right here after all your research

2506
01:33:42,550 --> 01:33:40,639
do you believe concepts in ufology like

2507
01:33:46,629 --> 01:33:42,560
men in black stem from practical jokes

2508
01:33:48,070 --> 01:33:46,639
and embellishments i.e kiel and barker

2509
01:33:50,709 --> 01:33:48,080
interesting question

2510
01:33:53,350 --> 01:33:50,719
yeah uh

2511
01:33:58,709 --> 01:33:56,149
it they certainly helped the mythos

2512
01:33:59,750 --> 01:33:58,719
uh the mythos really got started with

2513
01:34:03,830 --> 01:33:59,760
the

2514
01:34:05,910 --> 01:34:03,840
arnold actually investigated that's uh

2515
01:34:06,870 --> 01:34:05,920
chapter two in the book

2516
01:34:09,350 --> 01:34:06,880
um

2517
01:34:11,910 --> 01:34:09,360
yeah he uh kenneth arnold

2518
01:34:14,550 --> 01:34:11,920
uh at the behest of ray palmer ray

2519
01:34:18,390 --> 01:34:14,560
palmer published fate magazine

2520
01:34:20,870 --> 01:34:18,400
uh with curtis fuller in the uh

2521
01:34:22,550 --> 01:34:20,880
and took advantage of the uh

2522
01:34:25,030 --> 01:34:22,560
uh

2523
01:34:27,189 --> 01:34:25,040
the flying saucer mystery as soon as he

2524
01:34:29,830 --> 01:34:27,199
could uh

2525
01:34:31,350 --> 01:34:29,840
palmer was a little uh behind the ball

2526
01:34:35,030 --> 01:34:31,360
he was

2527
01:34:37,030 --> 01:34:35,040
a editor at uh amazing stories

2528
01:34:39,270 --> 01:34:37,040
and he was getting in trouble for

2529
01:34:40,790 --> 01:34:39,280
publishing too many shaver mystery

2530
01:34:43,030 --> 01:34:40,800
stories

2531
01:34:44,629 --> 01:34:43,040
and the the readers were getting fed up

2532
01:34:46,229 --> 01:34:44,639
with him and the management and they

2533
01:34:47,669 --> 01:34:46,239
also were going to move so he and curtis

2534
01:34:49,750 --> 01:34:47,679
fuller said you know let's start our own

2535
01:34:51,910 --> 01:34:49,760
magazine and he was eager to get started

2536
01:34:54,229 --> 01:34:51,920
with the flying saucer thing so he

2537
01:34:56,950 --> 01:34:54,239
published fate magazine and he reached

2538
01:34:59,430 --> 01:34:56,960
out to arnold and said you know

2539
01:35:01,109 --> 01:34:59,440
uh write your story but then

2540
01:35:04,709 --> 01:35:01,119
these guys got in touch with them that

2541
01:35:06,390 --> 01:35:04,719
they had some strange material and

2542
01:35:08,629 --> 01:35:06,400
palmer said

2543
01:35:11,430 --> 01:35:08,639
uh is it tell me it's from a flying

2544
01:35:14,390 --> 01:35:11,440
saucer oh it's from a flying saucer yes

2545
01:35:16,149 --> 01:35:14,400
sir yes sir so he got in touch with

2546
01:35:18,790 --> 01:35:16,159
arnold and sent him out to mori island

2547
01:35:20,870 --> 01:35:18,800
to investigate well as he's talking to

2548
01:35:22,629 --> 01:35:20,880
the these two guys involved this is a

2549
01:35:24,550 --> 01:35:22,639
hugely complex story i don't want to get

2550
01:35:26,470 --> 01:35:24,560
into you can look that up

2551
01:35:28,709 --> 01:35:26,480
but uh

2552
01:35:29,590 --> 01:35:28,719
what happened is one of the guys harold

2553
01:35:30,550 --> 01:35:29,600
dahl

2554
01:35:33,030 --> 01:35:30,560
uh

2555
01:35:35,270 --> 01:35:33,040
he and his partner friend chrisman

2556
01:35:37,109 --> 01:35:35,280
uh ran a uh

2557
01:35:39,350 --> 01:35:37,119
they they called themselves a harbor

2558
01:35:40,790 --> 01:35:39,360
patrol they were really salvaging logs

2559
01:35:42,950 --> 01:35:40,800
on on a boat

2560
01:35:44,629 --> 01:35:42,960
uh tacoma washington

2561
01:35:47,510 --> 01:35:44,639
and

2562
01:35:50,870 --> 01:35:49,590
doll said that

2563
01:35:52,229 --> 01:35:50,880
a man

2564
01:35:53,910 --> 01:35:52,239
in black

2565
01:35:55,430 --> 01:35:53,920
i think he i'm pretty sure he was in

2566
01:35:58,310 --> 01:35:55,440
black i think he said he was in a black

2567
01:36:00,149 --> 01:35:58,320
suit uh

2568
01:36:02,070 --> 01:36:00,159
you know

2569
01:36:04,550 --> 01:36:02,080
contacted him and wanted to meet him for

2570
01:36:06,070 --> 01:36:04,560
breakfast drove up and they went out to

2571
01:36:08,149 --> 01:36:06,080
breakfast together

2572
01:36:10,229 --> 01:36:08,159
which was not unusual that was often how

2573
01:36:11,669 --> 01:36:10,239
deals for salvage logs were done as as

2574
01:36:15,830 --> 01:36:11,679
doll described it

2575
01:36:17,510 --> 01:36:15,840
and so doll told arnold that this guy

2576
01:36:19,750 --> 01:36:17,520
knew everything about their sighting

2577
01:36:20,629 --> 01:36:19,760
their side the dolls claimed to have

2578
01:36:24,870 --> 01:36:20,639
seen

2579
01:36:26,629 --> 01:36:24,880
six donut shaped uh flying saucers uh

2580
01:36:29,109 --> 01:36:26,639
one of which was in trouble and dumped a

2581
01:36:31,189 --> 01:36:29,119
whole bunch of material uh

2582
01:36:35,510 --> 01:36:31,199
while he was on the boat out near mari

2583
01:36:40,149 --> 01:36:35,520
island uh near tacoma washington uh

2584
01:36:43,590 --> 01:36:42,790
um and

2585
01:36:45,030 --> 01:36:43,600
so

2586
01:36:46,790 --> 01:36:45,040
this guy

2587
01:36:48,470 --> 01:36:46,800
claimed to have

2588
01:36:50,070 --> 01:36:48,480
told him every according to the doll

2589
01:36:51,669 --> 01:36:50,080
this guy told him everything about he

2590
01:36:54,149 --> 01:36:51,679
had seen it

2591
01:36:56,550 --> 01:36:54,159
relayed the whole experience to him

2592
01:36:57,910 --> 01:36:56,560
and like he was there and then said you

2593
01:37:00,709 --> 01:36:57,920
know if you care about your family

2594
01:37:03,910 --> 01:37:00,719
you'll shut up about this so that's

2595
01:37:06,310 --> 01:37:03,920
the first mention as far as i know of uh

2596
01:37:07,669 --> 01:37:06,320
you know a modern flying saucer man in

2597
01:37:10,310 --> 01:37:07,679
black

2598
01:37:11,350 --> 01:37:10,320
then you have albert k bender albert k

2599
01:37:13,669 --> 01:37:11,360
bender

2600
01:37:18,229 --> 01:37:13,679
uh started the international flying

2601
01:37:19,990 --> 01:37:18,239
saucer bureau in 1952

2602
01:37:22,629 --> 01:37:20,000
that was the first one to go

2603
01:37:23,590 --> 01:37:22,639
international hence the name

2604
01:37:25,109 --> 01:37:23,600
uh

2605
01:37:27,830 --> 01:37:25,119
the aerial phenomena research

2606
01:37:30,310 --> 01:37:27,840
organization started by coral e lorenzen

2607
01:37:32,070 --> 01:37:30,320
started in late 1951 but he was the

2608
01:37:33,590 --> 01:37:32,080
first to go international

2609
01:37:35,189 --> 01:37:33,600
so he got big

2610
01:37:37,030 --> 01:37:35,199
really fast

2611
01:37:39,189 --> 01:37:37,040
and

2612
01:37:40,430 --> 01:37:39,199
he only lasted about a year it started

2613
01:37:47,430 --> 01:37:40,440
october

2614
01:37:50,310 --> 01:37:47,440
issue of space review which was their

2615
01:37:53,510 --> 01:37:52,310
saying that uh

2616
01:37:59,030 --> 01:37:53,520
he was going to have to shut down the

2617
01:38:03,350 --> 01:38:01,270
there were people's

2618
01:38:06,390 --> 01:38:03,360
essentially uh this

2619
01:38:07,830 --> 01:38:06,400
i forget what the action i should

2620
01:38:09,669 --> 01:38:07,840
reach all the way over here and look it

2621
01:38:11,270 --> 01:38:09,679
up but and then anyway

2622
01:38:13,750 --> 01:38:11,280
he uh

2623
01:38:15,669 --> 01:38:13,760
the story came out that he was visited

2624
01:38:17,590 --> 01:38:15,679
i forget what he wrote in the uh space

2625
01:38:19,669 --> 01:38:17,600
review but um

2626
01:38:21,669 --> 01:38:19,679
that it was basically announcing he was

2627
01:38:23,910 --> 01:38:21,679
shutting down the bureau and then the

2628
01:38:26,229 --> 01:38:23,920
story came out that

2629
01:38:28,550 --> 01:38:26,239
he said he was visited by three men in

2630
01:38:31,510 --> 01:38:28,560
black who told him

2631
01:38:33,590 --> 01:38:31,520
to stop talking about flying saucers he

2632
01:38:36,790 --> 01:38:33,600
claimed they told him the secret

2633
01:38:40,229 --> 01:38:36,800
uh but he couldn't tell anybody else

2634
01:38:41,750 --> 01:38:40,239
so and then he shut the bureau now so do

2635
01:38:43,669 --> 01:38:41,760
you think that's the kind of the first

2636
01:38:45,270 --> 01:38:43,679
account of men in black

2637
01:38:47,910 --> 01:38:45,280
that's the first time they get like you

2638
01:38:49,750 --> 01:38:47,920
know i i think that a lot of people will

2639
01:38:52,390 --> 01:38:49,760
say the maury island thing is the first

2640
01:38:53,990 --> 01:38:52,400
account uh but that's the first okay

2641
01:38:55,910 --> 01:38:54,000
after that they become three men in

2642
01:38:58,790 --> 01:38:55,920
black so the three men in black enters

2643
01:39:00,310 --> 01:38:58,800
the mythos from that point on but there

2644
01:39:01,669 --> 01:39:00,320
are people

2645
01:39:03,109 --> 01:39:01,679
who

2646
01:39:05,590 --> 01:39:03,119
you know

2647
01:39:08,149 --> 01:39:05,600
seem to credibly claim to

2648
01:39:09,910 --> 01:39:08,159
uh have actually been visited by men in

2649
01:39:12,390 --> 01:39:09,920
black and

2650
01:39:13,830 --> 01:39:12,400
that's a weird thing about it i i agree

2651
01:39:15,750 --> 01:39:13,840
with that i've had enough

2652
01:39:17,350 --> 01:39:15,760
i've heard enough of it over the years

2653
01:39:18,950 --> 01:39:17,360
and it's a weird thing about this thing

2654
01:39:22,310 --> 01:39:18,960
is sometimes

2655
01:39:24,950 --> 01:39:22,320
like mosley jim mosley um

2656
01:39:29,270 --> 01:39:24,960
who put out saucer smear until his death

2657
01:39:34,470 --> 01:39:31,990
known as the the gesture of ufology he

2658
01:39:36,470 --> 01:39:34,480
wrote a great book called uh

2659
01:39:38,830 --> 01:39:36,480
shockingly close to the truth

2660
01:39:41,109 --> 01:39:38,840
confessions of a grave-robbing

2661
01:39:41,910 --> 01:39:41,119
ufologist um

2662
01:39:50,709 --> 01:39:41,920
he

2663
01:39:52,550 --> 01:39:50,719
bender uh

2664
01:39:54,470 --> 01:39:52,560
it was

2665
01:39:56,790 --> 01:39:54,480
couldn't handle it and it just made up

2666
01:39:58,070 --> 01:39:56,800
the story as a as an excuse to close the

2667
01:40:00,229 --> 01:39:58,080
bureau

2668
01:40:03,109 --> 01:40:00,239
um

2669
01:40:04,790 --> 01:40:03,119
but but james mosley but yeah that's

2670
01:40:06,390 --> 01:40:04,800
where i was going with it james mosley

2671
01:40:07,189 --> 01:40:06,400
actually

2672
01:40:08,790 --> 01:40:07,199
uh

2673
01:40:09,990 --> 01:40:08,800
hoaxed a

2674
01:40:11,830 --> 01:40:10,000
just

2675
01:40:13,669 --> 01:40:11,840
made up a report made up a report i

2676
01:40:15,189 --> 01:40:13,679
think it was over the waunakee reservoir

2677
01:40:17,270 --> 01:40:15,199
new jersey

2678
01:40:18,870 --> 01:40:17,280
i just made it up and then after that

2679
01:40:20,149 --> 01:40:18,880
people started

2680
01:40:22,149 --> 01:40:20,159
claiming that

2681
01:40:24,550 --> 01:40:22,159
they were seeing ufos so there were

2682
01:40:26,709 --> 01:40:24,560
actual ufo reports after that is it

2683
01:40:28,629 --> 01:40:26,719
because mosley reported or were people

2684
01:40:31,270 --> 01:40:28,639
actually seeing it but one thing that

2685
01:40:32,629 --> 01:40:31,280
seems to happen with the mystery

2686
01:40:34,070 --> 01:40:32,639
is that

2687
01:40:36,149 --> 01:40:34,080
um

2688
01:40:38,149 --> 01:40:36,159
even if somebody makes something up the

2689
01:40:40,470 --> 01:40:38,159
mystery reflects it back

2690
01:40:41,910 --> 01:40:40,480
uh and

2691
01:40:43,830 --> 01:40:41,920
you know you could say well it's just

2692
01:40:46,310 --> 01:40:43,840
people heard the first person well we're

2693
01:40:48,830 --> 01:40:46,320
talking pre-internet days really early

2694
01:40:51,990 --> 01:40:48,840
and sometimes somebody will

2695
01:40:53,669 --> 01:40:52,000
report something or just make something

2696
01:40:56,229 --> 01:40:53,679
up in one part of the country and then

2697
01:40:57,430 --> 01:40:56,239
somebody way far away in another part of

2698
01:40:58,950 --> 01:40:57,440
the country

2699
01:41:02,390 --> 01:40:58,960
where the story hasn't made the news

2700
01:41:04,950 --> 01:41:02,400
wires will report the same thing

2701
01:41:06,950 --> 01:41:04,960
and it's strange isn't it a lot of

2702
01:41:09,750 --> 01:41:06,960
people manifested

2703
01:41:13,109 --> 01:41:09,760
yeah a lot a lot of people actually

2704
01:41:15,189 --> 01:41:13,119
believe that the phenomena actually

2705
01:41:16,470 --> 01:41:15,199
is some kind of consciousness that

2706
01:41:17,270 --> 01:41:16,480
reflects

2707
01:41:19,270 --> 01:41:17,280
uh

2708
01:41:21,030 --> 01:41:19,280
reflects our own you know

2709
01:41:23,510 --> 01:41:21,040
the machinations of the the human

2710
01:41:25,750 --> 01:41:23,520
consciousness

2711
01:41:27,750 --> 01:41:25,760
so so you know for me

2712
01:41:30,550 --> 01:41:27,760
i i don't discount

2713
01:41:33,189 --> 01:41:30,560
the fact that people experience

2714
01:41:35,350 --> 01:41:33,199
men in black encounters

2715
01:41:36,550 --> 01:41:35,360
yeah yeah somebody knows this is a

2716
01:41:39,109 --> 01:41:36,560
question

2717
01:41:40,790 --> 01:41:39,119
oh sorry go ahead i was going to say

2718
01:41:43,270 --> 01:41:40,800
even though it seems that you know the

2719
01:41:44,629 --> 01:41:43,280
the first accounts were more than likely

2720
01:41:46,950 --> 01:41:44,639
made up

2721
01:41:49,350 --> 01:41:46,960
yeah yeah it's weird like that a lot of

2722
01:41:51,750 --> 01:41:49,360
things seem to manifest you know i mean

2723
01:41:52,709 --> 01:41:51,760
back in 1947

2724
01:41:54,950 --> 01:41:52,719
you know

2725
01:41:56,709 --> 01:41:54,960
all of a sudden there was a ton of ufo

2726
01:41:58,470 --> 01:41:56,719
sightings and everybody was seeing them

2727
01:42:00,790 --> 01:41:58,480
all over the place now was that because

2728
01:42:04,390 --> 01:42:00,800
they were looking for them or

2729
01:42:05,830 --> 01:42:04,400
was imagination part of that in 1952 you

2730
01:42:07,910 --> 01:42:05,840
know was another

2731
01:42:10,709 --> 01:42:07,920
what they call a wave where everyone was

2732
01:42:13,030 --> 01:42:10,719
seeing ufos all over the country yeah 52

2733
01:42:15,030 --> 01:42:13,040
was crazy i write about that in the book

2734
01:42:17,669 --> 01:42:15,040
as well i mean that that

2735
01:42:19,430 --> 01:42:17,679
the project blue book was overwhelmed i

2736
01:42:21,270 --> 01:42:19,440
think they were working you know 14-hour

2737
01:42:24,070 --> 01:42:21,280
days seven days a week

2738
01:42:26,229 --> 01:42:24,080
uh and just

2739
01:42:27,189 --> 01:42:26,239
flying all over the country talking to

2740
01:42:29,510 --> 01:42:27,199
people

2741
01:42:32,950 --> 01:42:29,520
and then that was the the the washington

2742
01:42:34,790 --> 01:42:32,960
ufo flap two weekends in july in 1952.

2743
01:42:35,990 --> 01:42:34,800
these things showed up on rate four

2744
01:42:38,629 --> 01:42:36,000
radars

2745
01:42:41,109 --> 01:42:38,639
um they sent it they scrambled jets uh

2746
01:42:43,590 --> 01:42:41,119
jets would come in they disappear and uh

2747
01:42:45,990 --> 01:42:43,600
just leave they'd pop back on and it

2748
01:42:47,830 --> 01:42:46,000
freaked freaked a lot of very high very

2749
01:42:50,070 --> 01:42:47,840
high powered people in the uh department

2750
01:42:52,709 --> 01:42:50,080
of defense uh freaked them out they had

2751
01:42:54,470 --> 01:42:52,719
the larger there's a misconception too

2752
01:42:57,030 --> 01:42:54,480
about that pardon me go ahead go ahead

2753
01:43:00,229 --> 01:42:57,040
finish oh they had the the largest press

2754
01:43:01,750 --> 01:43:00,239
conference uh since the war uh over this

2755
01:43:04,390 --> 01:43:01,760
incident

2756
01:43:06,070 --> 01:43:04,400
but yeah what was the misconception

2757
01:43:09,510 --> 01:43:06,080
the misconception is

2758
01:43:12,310 --> 01:43:09,520
a lot of times when in 1952 ufos over

2759
01:43:14,390 --> 01:43:12,320
the capital uh you can google that i

2760
01:43:18,310 --> 01:43:14,400
mean i'm i'm doing it right now to see

2761
01:43:20,470 --> 01:43:18,320
uh there's images and it basically shows

2762
01:43:22,390 --> 01:43:20,480
uh in the image it looks like there's

2763
01:43:25,109 --> 01:43:22,400
actually ufos flying over the capitol

2764
01:43:27,030 --> 01:43:25,119
i'm going to try to put this up um here

2765
01:43:27,990 --> 01:43:27,040
because that is that is not really

2766
01:43:29,750 --> 01:43:28,000
what's happening what about the

2767
01:43:31,669 --> 01:43:29,760
reflections of lights those are not

2768
01:43:33,590 --> 01:43:31,679
that's exactly right that's that's what

2769
01:43:35,510 --> 01:43:33,600
i'm what they call yeah the only thing

2770
01:43:37,270 --> 01:43:35,520
is from getting

2771
01:43:39,189 --> 01:43:37,280
yeah i'm getting

2772
01:43:41,189 --> 01:43:39,199
the reason i'm talking about it is

2773
01:43:42,070 --> 01:43:41,199
because when people google that they see

2774
01:43:44,550 --> 01:43:42,080
this

2775
01:43:48,229 --> 01:43:44,560
and then they think that oh there's the

2776
01:43:50,390 --> 01:43:48,239
ufos this is not ufos this is the lights

2777
01:43:52,390 --> 01:43:50,400
below it's a camera

2778
01:43:55,590 --> 01:43:52,400
a trick of the camera so that's not

2779
01:43:58,470 --> 01:43:55,600
really no one saw the ufos on the ground

2780
01:44:00,149 --> 01:43:58,480
that was all all on on radar basically

2781
01:44:02,470 --> 01:44:00,159
right no no

2782
01:44:03,350 --> 01:44:02,480
there were visual sightings uh radar for

2783
01:44:04,310 --> 01:44:03,360
the world

2784
01:44:05,990 --> 01:44:04,320
yeah

2785
01:44:07,510 --> 01:44:06,000
but that picture doesn't have anything

2786
01:44:08,629 --> 01:44:07,520
to do with it is what i'm getting it

2787
01:44:10,470 --> 01:44:08,639
correct

2788
01:44:12,390 --> 01:44:10,480
but yeah one radar tower called another

2789
01:44:13,990 --> 01:44:12,400
radar tower and said hey we're we're

2790
01:44:16,550 --> 01:44:14,000
picking something up that you should be

2791
01:44:18,870 --> 01:44:16,560
able to see do you see it and they said

2792
01:44:20,550 --> 01:44:18,880
yes we do

2793
01:44:22,310 --> 01:44:20,560
so there were there were visual

2794
01:44:24,709 --> 01:44:22,320
sightings as well

2795
01:44:26,950 --> 01:44:24,719
yeah and now here's just a question off

2796
01:44:28,470 --> 01:44:26,960
topic um just someone that listens to

2797
01:44:29,830 --> 01:44:28,480
all your audio blogs they want to know

2798
01:44:32,390 --> 01:44:29,840
how long it takes

2799
01:44:36,149 --> 01:44:32,400
to uh create an audio blog you put a lot

2800
01:44:38,310 --> 01:44:36,159
of time into these things i imagine yeah

2801
01:44:39,910 --> 01:44:38,320
i i record them at three in the morning

2802
01:44:42,149 --> 01:44:39,920
it's the only time i live next to the

2803
01:44:43,350 --> 01:44:42,159
brooklyn queens expressway

2804
01:44:45,510 --> 01:44:43,360
uh so

2805
01:44:47,270 --> 01:44:45,520
and i've got a lot of very loud birds

2806
01:44:48,550 --> 01:44:47,280
and i live in a house with a bunch of

2807
01:44:51,109 --> 01:44:48,560
people so

2808
01:44:53,830 --> 01:44:51,119
uh that's a great time to record

2809
01:44:55,189 --> 01:44:53,840
um and so i i've got a pretty rough

2810
01:44:56,709 --> 01:44:55,199
morning voice

2811
01:44:58,310 --> 01:44:56,719
um

2812
01:44:59,350 --> 01:44:58,320
well i do appreciate it

2813
01:45:00,550 --> 01:44:59,360
but

2814
01:45:03,030 --> 01:45:00,560
everyone

2815
01:45:05,430 --> 01:45:03,040
yeah i do it because it's fun too but so

2816
01:45:07,350 --> 01:45:05,440
yeah so what i do is i i say each

2817
01:45:09,109 --> 01:45:07,360
sentence three times

2818
01:45:10,709 --> 01:45:09,119
um

2819
01:45:12,229 --> 01:45:10,719
and

2820
01:45:18,229 --> 01:45:12,239
you know

2821
01:45:20,950 --> 01:45:18,239
a work anything's messed up i i can

2822
01:45:22,790 --> 01:45:20,960
pretty much fix anything that way

2823
01:45:24,870 --> 01:45:22,800
oftentimes it'll just be the first

2824
01:45:27,270 --> 01:45:24,880
sentence and the other two go away

2825
01:45:28,470 --> 01:45:27,280
so it takes you know generally takes me

2826
01:45:30,310 --> 01:45:28,480
about

2827
01:45:31,430 --> 01:45:30,320
between half an hour and 40 minutes to

2828
01:45:34,550 --> 01:45:31,440
record

2829
01:45:37,109 --> 01:45:34,560
and about four hours to edit

2830
01:45:40,790 --> 01:45:37,119
oh wow oh my god wow

2831
01:45:42,149 --> 01:45:40,800
i'm like i'm obsessive uh i

2832
01:45:44,550 --> 01:45:42,159
you know i got to get rid of all the

2833
01:45:48,070 --> 01:45:44,560
breaths um you know there are like

2834
01:45:50,310 --> 01:45:48,080
things you can do i put silences

2835
01:45:53,430 --> 01:45:50,320
i have recorded silence i recorded

2836
01:45:54,790 --> 01:45:53,440
silence uh and uh i

2837
01:45:56,470 --> 01:45:54,800
stick that in

2838
01:45:57,350 --> 01:45:56,480
you know anywhere you gotta

2839
01:45:58,390 --> 01:45:57,360
you know

2840
01:46:00,470 --> 01:45:58,400
and or

2841
01:46:02,550 --> 01:46:00,480
clicks or you know all the the mouth

2842
01:46:04,629 --> 01:46:02,560
noises and um

2843
01:46:07,910 --> 01:46:04,639
there there is noise reduction

2844
01:46:08,950 --> 01:46:07,920
i i do use that uh but it you know

2845
01:46:10,629 --> 01:46:08,960
it if

2846
01:46:13,189 --> 01:46:10,639
it doesn't get rid of a lot of things

2847
01:46:14,470 --> 01:46:13,199
and and uh so yeah so i get rid of all

2848
01:46:17,590 --> 01:46:14,480
the uh the

2849
01:46:21,109 --> 01:46:17,600
the sp i put silence in all the spaces

2850
01:46:22,709 --> 01:46:21,119
uh the big ones and uh there's also a

2851
01:46:24,310 --> 01:46:22,719
wonderful thing you should know

2852
01:46:27,990 --> 01:46:24,320
everybody should know about this i do it

2853
01:46:29,430 --> 01:46:28,000
in audacity uh there's a plug-in called

2854
01:46:33,189 --> 01:46:29,440
the d-clicker

2855
01:46:35,109 --> 01:46:33,199
dry mouth and you've got all these

2856
01:46:36,550 --> 01:46:35,119
clicks and pops it

2857
01:46:38,790 --> 01:46:36,560
bang they're gone

2858
01:46:41,510 --> 01:46:38,800
so that that's that's saved me about

2859
01:46:43,430 --> 01:46:41,520
another four hours right there wow i do

2860
01:46:46,310 --> 01:46:43,440
everything live and it just is what it

2861
01:46:50,470 --> 01:46:48,790
yeah it is what it is so uh let's talk

2862
01:46:52,629 --> 01:46:50,480
i'm gonna talk a little bit let's see we

2863
01:46:54,629 --> 01:46:52,639
we have only looks like about six or

2864
01:46:56,629 --> 01:46:54,639
seven minutes left here so i want to

2865
01:46:58,070 --> 01:46:56,639
talk about some of the

2866
01:47:01,030 --> 01:46:58,080
i like the fact that you did the high

2867
01:47:02,709 --> 01:47:01,040
neck crossover one and let's talk about

2868
01:47:04,229 --> 01:47:02,719
uh because a lot of people ask you know

2869
01:47:06,870 --> 01:47:04,239
what what made

2870
01:47:08,790 --> 01:47:06,880
a high neck crossover and there's been

2871
01:47:11,189 --> 01:47:08,800
like the rumor i know you looked into

2872
01:47:13,750 --> 01:47:11,199
this a lot more than i have but

2873
01:47:16,470 --> 01:47:13,760
it was kind of a rumor that

2874
01:47:17,990 --> 01:47:16,480
uh the socorro case is the thing that

2875
01:47:19,990 --> 01:47:18,000
kind of made him cross over what did you

2876
01:47:22,390 --> 01:47:20,000
find out in your research he was super

2877
01:47:23,990 --> 01:47:22,400
impressed by socorro he went back twice

2878
01:47:25,510 --> 01:47:24,000
on his own time

2879
01:47:27,990 --> 01:47:25,520
um

2880
01:47:30,070 --> 01:47:28,000
he went on his own time yeah yeah yeah

2881
01:47:33,109 --> 01:47:30,080
he was super impressed by that

2882
01:47:35,590 --> 01:47:33,119
uh so that that was probably a catalyst

2883
01:47:37,270 --> 01:47:35,600
it didn't like he wasn't

2884
01:47:38,629 --> 01:47:37,280
in one day

2885
01:47:46,709 --> 01:47:38,639
uh

2886
01:47:49,910 --> 01:47:46,719
famous french researcher

2887
01:47:51,669 --> 01:47:49,920
uh the model for dr claude lacombe in

2888
01:47:53,109 --> 01:47:51,679
close encounters of the third kind for

2889
01:47:55,590 --> 01:47:53,119
those who don't know

2890
01:47:55,600 --> 01:47:58,550
jacques villa

2891
01:48:04,149 --> 01:47:59,910
wanted to work

2892
01:48:07,750 --> 01:48:06,149
they met villa was very impressed by

2893
01:48:08,550 --> 01:48:07,760
heinek uh

2894
01:48:10,149 --> 01:48:08,560
and

2895
01:48:12,149 --> 01:48:10,159
wanted to hang out with him

2896
01:48:15,590 --> 01:48:12,159
uh like you know

2897
01:48:17,750 --> 01:48:15,600
frequently i guess so

2898
01:48:20,149 --> 01:48:17,760
there was a job heinek taught at

2899
01:48:21,990 --> 01:48:20,159
northwestern university i believe he was

2900
01:48:23,109 --> 01:48:22,000
the head of the astronomy department at

2901
01:48:24,629 --> 01:48:23,119
the time

2902
01:48:28,310 --> 01:48:24,639
and

2903
01:48:32,950 --> 01:48:30,629
a job came up for a computer systems

2904
01:48:34,550 --> 01:48:32,960
programmer and heineken alerted valet to

2905
01:48:37,109 --> 01:48:34,560
it and delay took the job so they were

2906
01:48:39,350 --> 01:48:37,119
co-workers

2907
01:48:43,350 --> 01:48:41,270
when

2908
01:48:45,270 --> 01:48:43,360
so that and

2909
01:48:47,109 --> 01:48:45,280
they started doing the what's known as

2910
01:48:50,470 --> 01:48:47,119
the invisible college people would meet

2911
01:48:52,870 --> 01:48:50,480
and just discuss ufos and you know what

2912
01:48:56,950 --> 01:48:52,880
they could possibly be so

2913
01:49:01,270 --> 01:48:56,960
you know the the influence with valet

2914
01:49:03,910 --> 01:49:01,280
combined with the socorro incident uh

2915
01:49:06,390 --> 01:49:03,920
opening his mind more

2916
01:49:09,750 --> 01:49:06,400
that was both of them

2917
01:49:11,830 --> 01:49:09,760
those two factors just kind of let him

2918
01:49:13,430 --> 01:49:11,840
but he didn't come out publicly

2919
01:49:14,870 --> 01:49:13,440
on the side of it until he met james

2920
01:49:21,990 --> 01:49:14,880
mcdonald

2921
01:49:23,109 --> 01:49:22,000
investigating and

2922
01:49:24,550 --> 01:49:23,119
he

2923
01:49:26,830 --> 01:49:24,560
dove right in

2924
01:49:30,870 --> 01:49:26,840
with both feet

2925
01:49:32,709 --> 01:49:30,880
and he became a believer real fast

2926
01:49:36,470 --> 01:49:32,719
and

2927
01:49:38,870 --> 01:49:36,480
he met with heinek uh well he

2928
01:49:41,589 --> 01:49:38,880
he got managed to get a grant

2929
01:49:42,790 --> 01:49:41,599
uh that involved

2930
01:49:44,149 --> 01:49:42,800
looking

2931
01:49:46,229 --> 01:49:44,159
working with

2932
01:49:47,510 --> 01:49:46,239
lasers something to do with atmospheric

2933
01:49:49,589 --> 01:49:47,520
physics

2934
01:49:52,149 --> 01:49:49,599
but part of it they asked him to look

2935
01:49:55,109 --> 01:49:52,159
into ufos and said look we can slip you

2936
01:49:57,910 --> 01:49:55,119
a little money to do your ufo research

2937
01:49:59,990 --> 01:49:57,920
and make it'll be justified

2938
01:50:01,430 --> 01:50:00,000
and we could he

2939
01:50:03,510 --> 01:50:01,440
made arrangements to visit

2940
01:50:05,910 --> 01:50:03,520
wright-patterson air force base the

2941
01:50:07,990 --> 01:50:05,920
office and the offices of uh project

2942
01:50:09,750 --> 01:50:08,000
blue book that were housed there

2943
01:50:11,510 --> 01:50:09,760
and he went out there he looked at the

2944
01:50:14,709 --> 01:50:11,520
project blue book files and he was

2945
01:50:16,750 --> 01:50:14,719
appalled he saw case after case that

2946
01:50:18,629 --> 01:50:16,760
just you know the ridiculous

2947
01:50:19,430 --> 01:50:18,639
exclamations i mean there's some years

2948
01:50:21,030 --> 01:50:19,440
where

2949
01:50:22,470 --> 01:50:21,040
blue book was better than others and

2950
01:50:24,550 --> 01:50:22,480
root belt you know

2951
01:50:25,830 --> 01:50:24,560
had some integrity but uh there were

2952
01:50:28,790 --> 01:50:25,840
other years where

2953
01:50:31,030 --> 01:50:28,800
the guy in charge was just so anti uh

2954
01:50:34,070 --> 01:50:31,040
saucer ufo that uh

2955
01:50:35,510 --> 01:50:34,080
they would just explain cases away no

2956
01:50:37,510 --> 01:50:35,520
matter what and

2957
01:50:39,430 --> 01:50:37,520
he also saw that heineken signed off on

2958
01:50:41,189 --> 01:50:39,440
a lot of these ridiculous

2959
01:50:42,070 --> 01:50:41,199
explanations

2960
01:50:44,550 --> 01:50:42,080
so

2961
01:50:46,310 --> 01:50:44,560
he made arrangements to visit heinek

2962
01:50:47,990 --> 01:50:46,320
and honey oh yeah it'd be wonderful to

2963
01:50:51,750 --> 01:50:48,000
come out and talk

2964
01:50:53,270 --> 01:50:51,760
and they had lunch together with filet

2965
01:50:54,310 --> 01:50:53,280
and valet writes about it in his

2966
01:50:56,470 --> 01:50:54,320
journals

2967
01:50:57,669 --> 01:50:56,480
um forbidden science

2968
01:51:00,550 --> 01:50:57,679
and

2969
01:51:02,950 --> 01:51:00,560
he he laid into heinek

2970
01:51:05,109 --> 01:51:02,960
uh just said you know how you know how

2971
01:51:07,189 --> 01:51:05,119
could you write you know put your name

2972
01:51:10,070 --> 01:51:07,199
on these ridiculous explanations why

2973
01:51:12,629 --> 01:51:10,080
didn't you speak up you know

2974
01:51:13,350 --> 01:51:12,639
you have a duty as a scientist

2975
01:51:15,430 --> 01:51:13,360
and

2976
01:51:16,950 --> 01:51:15,440
heinrich said which is true yeah

2977
01:51:20,070 --> 01:51:16,960
well yeah but

2978
01:51:21,669 --> 01:51:20,080
it's also it's interesting heinek was

2979
01:51:23,990 --> 01:51:21,679
kind of you could say it was sort of in

2980
01:51:25,430 --> 01:51:24,000
the same position william moore was with

2981
01:51:27,589 --> 01:51:25,440
richard doughty he's like oh i'm getting

2982
01:51:30,070 --> 01:51:27,599
this information and you know if i play

2983
01:51:30,950 --> 01:51:30,080
ball i'll still get the information uh

2984
01:51:36,550 --> 01:51:30,960
you know

2985
01:51:38,310 --> 01:51:36,560
if he speaks up he loses he's not gonna

2986
01:51:40,149 --> 01:51:38,320
he's not gonna be an insider anymore

2987
01:51:41,510 --> 01:51:40,159
they're gonna just boot him

2988
01:51:42,950 --> 01:51:41,520
so you know

2989
01:51:45,350 --> 01:51:42,960
but uh

2990
01:51:48,709 --> 01:51:45,360
in any case mcdonald

2991
01:51:55,430 --> 01:51:51,910
mcdonald haranguing him uh

2992
01:51:58,310 --> 01:51:55,440
caused him to go public and he started

2993
01:52:02,310 --> 01:51:58,320
going public on the side of uh

2994
01:52:04,870 --> 01:52:02,320
scientific research uh for ufos uh in

2995
01:52:08,149 --> 01:52:04,880
the press so he took a public stance he

2996
01:52:10,070 --> 01:52:08,159
finally did do that um and it's mainly

2997
01:52:11,750 --> 01:52:10,080
due to uh being yelled at by james

2998
01:52:12,550 --> 01:52:11,760
mcdonald

2999
01:52:14,950 --> 01:52:12,560
yeah

3000
01:52:17,990 --> 01:52:14,960
as far as like as far as my research uh

3001
01:52:21,350 --> 01:52:19,270
yes

3002
01:52:23,030 --> 01:52:21,360
yeah so we are we're just we're right

3003
01:52:24,709 --> 01:52:23,040
out of time here charles just real

3004
01:52:26,790 --> 01:52:24,719
quickly what was your favorite chapter

3005
01:52:28,790 --> 01:52:26,800
to write in the book

3006
01:52:30,950 --> 01:52:28,800
um

3007
01:52:33,109 --> 01:52:30,960
that's a good one i i like to overt

3008
01:52:34,629 --> 01:52:33,119
contact uh

3009
01:52:36,390 --> 01:52:34,639
very

3010
01:52:38,550 --> 01:52:36,400
people getting injured by ufos i know

3011
01:52:40,709 --> 01:52:38,560
that sounds terrible but i actually

3012
01:52:43,030 --> 01:52:40,719
think that the investigators dropped the

3013
01:52:44,390 --> 01:52:43,040
ball on that because there's a lot of

3014
01:52:47,030 --> 01:52:44,400
medical

3015
01:52:48,149 --> 01:52:47,040
reports that nobody got that are gone

3016
01:52:51,030 --> 01:52:48,159
forever

3017
01:52:53,350 --> 01:52:51,040
of people getting hurt by

3018
01:52:55,830 --> 01:52:53,360
flying saucers ufos getting zapped

3019
01:52:58,229 --> 01:52:55,840
getting burned

3020
01:53:01,030 --> 01:52:58,239
and there are a lot of reports out there

3021
01:53:03,189 --> 01:53:01,040
and uh yeah even though

3022
01:53:04,950 --> 01:53:03,199
has been talking about this as as well

3023
01:53:07,030 --> 01:53:04,960
as some of his last shows we're

3024
01:53:08,470 --> 01:53:07,040
unfortunate we're out of time the flying

3025
01:53:09,830 --> 01:53:08,480
saucer investigators and i'll look

3026
01:53:12,149 --> 01:53:09,840
forward to those links that you'll be

3027
01:53:13,830 --> 01:53:12,159
sending me thank you charles very cool

3028
01:53:15,510 --> 01:53:13,840
great cheers great as always thank you

3029
01:53:17,430 --> 01:53:15,520
very much all right

3030
01:53:19,669 --> 01:53:17,440
all right everyone so uh don't forget to

3031
01:53:22,229 --> 01:53:19,679
tune in tomorrow night uh we're going to

3032
01:53:24,470 --> 01:53:22,239
be on uh with uh

3033
01:53:27,990 --> 01:53:24,480
becky ferreira and marc d'antonio is

3034
01:53:30,470 --> 01:53:28,000
joining me and that's on youtube and

3035
01:53:32,390 --> 01:53:30,480
facebook and next week we have mario

3036
01:53:33,990 --> 01:53:32,400
woods he will be on thanks so much

3037
01:53:37,040 --> 01:53:34,000
everyone and remember to keep your eyes

3038
01:53:46,350 --> 01:53:37,050
to the sky